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  • FIRST POST
    • uptown1973
    • By uptown1973 19th Nov 19, 1:34 PM
    • 2Posts
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    uptown1973
    Amazon - TV Purchase not as described.
    • #1
    • 19th Nov 19, 1:34 PM
    Amazon - TV Purchase not as described. 19th Nov 19 at 1:34 PM
    I bought a TV from Amazon and it's not as per the description on the website. The website states the item has "Freeview Plus". The manufacturer has advised the model in question doesn't. Amazon want me to return the item for a full refund. I would have thought that I'd be entitled to a partial discount ( quick reading Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 suggests as the goods not as described I'd be entitled to a discount on the price paid of 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% discount depending on whether the breach (incorrectly described products presumably being a breach) is considered to be minor, significant, serious or very serious? Or am I being thick and or unreasonble (both all too frequent occurences!).
Page 1
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 19th Nov 19, 1:39 PM
    • 5,542 Posts
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    BoGoF
    • #2
    • 19th Nov 19, 1:39 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Nov 19, 1:39 PM
    Usual question with Amazon related enquiries.....was this a 3rd party seller or direct from Amazon.

    But no, you are not going to get a 25% discount if you want to keep it.
    • uptown1973
    • By uptown1973 19th Nov 19, 2:06 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    uptown1973
    • #3
    • 19th Nov 19, 2:06 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Nov 19, 2:06 PM
    direct fom Amazon.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 19th Nov 19, 2:06 PM
    • 4,961 Posts
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #4
    • 19th Nov 19, 2:06 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Nov 19, 2:06 PM
    You’re entitled to be put back in your original position, no more, no less. They may offer you a discount if you ask, but you’re not legally entitled to one.
    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 19th Nov 19, 2:14 PM
    • 4,262 Posts
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    mattyprice4004
    • #5
    • 19th Nov 19, 2:14 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Nov 19, 2:14 PM
    Why would you be entitled to a partial discount?
    If they want you to return it for a refund, that's what you need to do. They're not obliged just to hand out money because there's a mistake in the description.
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 19th Nov 19, 3:53 PM
    • 2,662 Posts
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • #6
    • 19th Nov 19, 3:53 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Nov 19, 3:53 PM
    Consumer Rights Act does actually offer the right to a price reduction

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24/enacted

    Amazon can't replace or repair as the thing they advertised doesn't exist.

    The wording is a little complex (for me at least) so I'm not 100% sure in what situation the right to a price reduction would apply and whether the OP would be entitled to one.
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 19th Nov 19, 4:15 PM
    • 1,900 Posts
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    Ganga
    • #7
    • 19th Nov 19, 4:15 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Nov 19, 4:15 PM
    Consumer Rights Act does actually offer the right to a price reduction

    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24/enacted

    Amazon can't replace or repair as the thing they advertised doesn't exist.

    The wording is a little complex (for me at least) so I'm not 100% sure in what situation the right to a price reduction would apply and whether the OP would be entitled to one.
    Originally posted by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    So are they entitled to a discount or not? i suspect not but Amazon may give something rather than transport costs,refunds etc.
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 19th Nov 19, 4:35 PM
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    DoaM
    • #8
    • 19th Nov 19, 4:35 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Nov 19, 4:35 PM
    My interpretation is ... the CRA allows a price reduction to be an agreed remedy ... it doesn't entitle the consumer to demand a price reduction. The seller can still opt for/impose another remedy (replacement or refund).
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 19th Nov 19, 4:39 PM
    • 2,662 Posts
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • #9
    • 19th Nov 19, 4:39 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Nov 19, 4:39 PM
    i suspect not
    Originally posted by Ganga
    Based on?

    The link says

    (5)A consumer who has the right to a price reduction and the final right to reject may only exercise one (not both), and may only do so in one of these situations—
    (a)after one repair or one replacement, the goods do not conform to the contract;
    (b)because of section 23(3) the consumer can require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or
    (c)the consumer has required the trader to repair or replace the goods, but the trader is in breach of the requirement of section 23(2)(a) to do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

    23(3)The consumer cannot require the trader to repair or replace the goods if that remedy (the repair or the replacement)—
    (a)is impossible, or
    (b)is disproportionate compared to the other of those remedies.

    The bit I don't understand is this

    (4)The right to a price reduction does not apply—
    (a)if what the consumer is (before the reduction) required to transfer under the contract, whether or not already transferred, cannot be divided up so as to enable the trader to receive or retain only the reduced amount, or
    (b)if anything to which section 20(12) applies cannot be given back in its original state.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 19th Nov 19, 4:45 PM
    • 8,268 Posts
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    DoaM
    I read (4)(b) as meaning that if the goods are unable to be returned to the seller unmolested due to their nature (e.g. consumables) ... the consumer can insist on a price reduction. In the OP's case the TV can be returned unmolested so the seller can insist on a replacement or refund and doesn't have to offer a price reduction.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 19th Nov 19, 4:56 PM
    • 2,662 Posts
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    I read (4)(b) as meaning that if the goods are unable to be returned to the seller unmolested due to their nature (e.g. consumables) ... the consumer can insist on a price reduction. In the OP's case the TV can be returned unmolested so the seller can insist on a replacement or refund and doesn't have to offer a price reduction.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Section 20 referred to above mentions:

    (9)The consumerís entitlement to receive a refund works as follows.
    (10)To the extent that the consumer paid money under the contract, the consumer is entitled to receive back the same amount of money.
    (11)To the extent that the consumer transferred anything else under the contract, the consumer is entitled to receive back the same amount of what the consumer transferred, unless subsection (12) applies.
    (12)To the extent that the consumer transferred under the contract something for which the same amount of the same thing cannot be substituted, the consumer is entitled to receive back in its original state whatever the consumer transferred.

    In that sense transferred appears to be referring to payment other than money.

    Which appears to say if you paid for your goods with something else and the trader can not cut that into two parts then the right to a part refund doesn't exist.

    Would be nice if they wrote these things in nice, easy words for the layman to understand.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 19th Nov 19, 7:24 PM
    • 13,810 Posts
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    neilmcl
    So are they entitled to a discount or not? i suspect not but Amazon may give something rather than transport costs,refunds etc.
    Originally posted by Ganga
    No they're not.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 19th Nov 19, 7:26 PM
    • 13,810 Posts
    • 10,332 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Section 20 referred to above mentions:

    (9)The consumerís entitlement to receive a refund works as follows.
    (10)To the extent that the consumer paid money under the contract, the consumer is entitled to receive back the same amount of money.
    (11)To the extent that the consumer transferred anything else under the contract, the consumer is entitled to receive back the same amount of what the consumer transferred, unless subsection (12) applies.
    (12)To the extent that the consumer transferred under the contract something for which the same amount of the same thing cannot be substituted, the consumer is entitled to receive back in its original state whatever the consumer transferred.

    In that sense transferred appears to be referring to payment other than money.

    Which appears to say if you paid for your goods with something else and the trader can not cut that into two parts then the right to a part refund doesn't exist.

    Would be nice if they wrote these things in nice, easy words for the layman to understand.
    Originally posted by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    Then there wound't be a need for the legal profession, bit like turkeys voting for xmas
    • Labsuper
    • By Labsuper 19th Nov 19, 7:39 PM
    • 190 Posts
    • 295 Thanks
    Labsuper
    Then there wound't be a need for the legal profession, bit like turkeys voting for xmas
    Originally posted by neilmcl

    Who is wounded?
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Nov 19, 8:53 PM
    • 14,177 Posts
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    unholyangel

    Would be nice if they wrote these things in nice, easy words for the layman to understand.
    Originally posted by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/notes/division/3/1/3/4/6



    134.This section provides for the consumerís rights to reduction of the purchase price or to reject the goods and obtain a (partial) refund. These are generally available if repair or replacement of the goods has not been possible or has not corrected the fault. Under subsection (4), if the consumer transferred something other than money for the goods, and the thing transferred cannot be returned in the same state or divided sufficiently to give back to the consumer the appropriate amount the consumer may not seek a reduction in the purchase price.

    And OP what would the price difference be between what you paid for versus what you received? Thats generally the aim of the reduction in price - if its a reasonable amount and around the same it will cost them to collect it, then they might be more inclined to agree.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • born again
    • By born again 20th Nov 19, 6:20 PM
    • 802 Posts
    • 428 Thanks
    born again
    Has the OP asked amazon if they were prepared to offer a discount?

    If so how much was the item and how much are they looking at.
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 21st Nov 19, 9:32 AM
    • 2,662 Posts
    • 1,579 Thanks
    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/notes/division/3/1/3/4/6






    And OP what would the price difference be between what you paid for versus what you received? Thats generally the aim of the reduction in price - if its a reasonable amount and around the same it will cost them to collect it, then they might be more inclined to agree.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Thanks, never looked at the notes before, very handy.

    So if the goods don't conform and it's not possible to replace or repair, one repair or replacement has occurred or the trader can't repair or replace within a reasonable time or without significant inconvenience and has paid by something that can be divided then the consumer does have the right to require the trader to provide a part refund.
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