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11 Indigo PCNs

2456713

Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,231 Forumite
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    edited 9 January 2019 at 2:40PM
    Whatapain wrote: »
    I have asked for Popla but no reply. Strangely they are much more reactive to ask ZZZ to send me threatening letters even within their own delays rules.

    The appeal rejection letter gives an ITAL verification but no POPLA.

    From threads on pepipoo.com we have come to understand that Indigo now use ITAL, not PoPLA, and the BPA are OK with this.

    It all comes under the general term IAS, which means Independent Appeals Service.
    The scammers can use any one they like as long as it is an accredited scheme such as PoPLA, ITAL, IAS (The IPC name for their IAS), Ombudsmen Services, or any other they choose.

    So, you won't get a PoPLA code from Indigo but an ITAL (asparking) code instead. If you try to use the IATL code in a PoPLA appeal, the PoPLA system will reject it and tell you it is not valid.


    In other words, you are stuck with ITAL not PoPLA. We have no idea f the ITAL assessors have any parking charge appeal experience as they were set up initially to deal with alleged rail fare dodgers etcetera.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • We will soon learn what works at ITAL
  • Whatapain
    Whatapain Posts: 44 Forumite
    All PCNs are titled «!Notice to owner!» actually. Not sure it makes a difference to anything but I thought I’d mention it.

    When appealing to ITAL should I follow a specific template or simply explain that I have paid, car make appears on receipts as opposed to reg and been receiving 11 (there will be 2 more to come following the same «!logic!») penalty notices from Indigo as a result?
  • I think you need to do a broad brush approach as per the sticky thread,
    A bit like the first days of POPLA we learned what worked and what didst
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,345 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    When appealing to ITAL should I follow a specific template or simply explain that I have paid, car make appears on receipts as opposed to reg and been receiving 11 (there will be 2 more to come following the same «!logic!») penalty notices from Indigo as a result?
    You have as much experience of appealing to ITAL (none) as the forum currently has (none)! I'd work along the lines of a POPLA appeal in the absence of any other ITAL example which shows that a different format is successful.

    The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 is your starting point.

    Be careful with any identification, either explicit or implicit, of your status in relation to driver, keeper, registered keeper, owner.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,231 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    edited 9 January 2019 at 3:15PM
    Whatapain wrote: »
    All PCNs are titled «!Notice to owner!» actually. Not sure it makes a difference to anything but I thought I’d mention it.

    When appealing to ITAL should I follow a specific template or simply explain that I have paid, car make appears on receipts as opposed to reg and been receiving 11 (there will be 2 more to come following the same «!logic!») penalty notices from Indigo as a result?

    In my household I am the (registered) keeper of three cars but the owner of two. A judge could in theory assume on the balance of probabilities (51%) that I am the owner of the third car even though I am not.

    In your case there is no ambiguity. The lease company is presumably the owner and possibly the registered keeper as well. Either the garage or you could be considered as the day to day keeper, and just to confuse things further, for those already appealed, the scammers know the identity of the driver.

    Since you are not the owner you cannot be held liable where byelaws apply no matter what happens. Just don't help the scammers by pointing out their mistake.

    I suggest you follow the general guidelines from the NEWBIES for PoPLA appeals.

    Whether you appeal as driver for the first few then as (day to day) keeper for the rest, or as (day to day keeper) for all of them doesn't really matter. As long as nobody tells them who the owner is, they are stuffed.

    Show us your draft appeals before you submit them though please.

    In the extremely unlikely event this ever got in front of a judge at Magistrate's court, it would be fun to ask the scammers why they keep sending stuff to you that is clearly intended for and addressed to the owner


    *Thinks*
    Could this be a DPA/GDPR breach?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Whatapain
    Whatapain Posts: 44 Forumite
    Thank you very much I will show a copy before I appeal.

    Just to clarify: I used that car which was provided by a garage as my car was being repaired. The owner is the leasing company. The keeper is most likely the garage. The driver was myself. When I appealed to the initial batch of 5 PCNs I indicated my name and address. They never wrote to me but always to the leasing company. The leasing company then scans the PCNs and funny letters from scary ZZZ and email the whole lot to the garage who in turns emails it to me.

    Not that the complexity of how I do get them matters I suppose but this is just to say that initial PCNs go to the owner i.e. leasing comp and so do ZZZ’s trash as it looks like everything is being sent at the same time anyway.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,231 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    edited 9 January 2019 at 4:41PM
    You need to ensure somehow that the PCNs come to you from the scammers as the owners may get fed up and decide to pay them and charge the garage, who may then try to charge you.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    The thing here to remember is that the odds are stacked against the scammer, bye laws, no keeper liability, six months time maguistrates court, etc., etc., etc.

    Add to their troubles, complain to your MP.

    It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business. Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

    All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • seems that POPLa cant get there head around the law

    posted on pepipoo

    "At this point I read on MSE that POPLA should be used for 2nd level appeals. The code ZZPS gave was accepted by the POPLA website, and I submitted my appeal through them.

    A week or two later, I get an Email from POPLA thanking me for withdrawing my appeal! This was followed within a few minutes by an Email saying:

    "You may have received an email advising you that have withdrawn your appeal.

    The reason this is because POPLA do not deal with Byelaws appeals for Indigo.

    You would need to raise your appeal to ITAL using the following link below:

    https://www.ital-uk.com/enforcement-solutio...ocessing/"


    when the poster kicked off with them

    "Thank you for your recent email.

    Although we appreciate your comments; we cannot become involved with your appeal due to the reasons given in our previous email. Furthermore, although POPLA is now in a position to consider byelaw appeals, our acceptance of byelaw appeals only became active from 1 November 2018. If your appeal took place prior to this, then we cannot consider it for investigation.

    Also. if you have a already submitted an appeal with the ITAL we cannot become involved."
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