Charging Order? The myth

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  • Thank you so much for your response.. that makes sense. These forums are so wonderful for people like me who aren’t so clued up about these things and the language used! So I’m right in thinking sticking with my current mortgage provider and just getting a new fixed rate deal would be ok to do even with with a charging order. As this would just be an extension to my current payment plan??
  • eggbox
    eggbox Posts: 1,764
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    Yes you are and if you are told any different by your mortgage lender then come back here.
  • Hi LR/Eggbox,


    I was all happy and thought I had finished my quest...but apparently not... I am back for more advice!!


    I contacted the LR and posted a chq with an OC1 form(as recommended) I have had confirmation that the request was received on the 11/10 and the chq has been cashed early October. How long should it be before the information is sent out as we don't have it?


    This relates to a charge from Hitachi (I mentioned previously the court cant find any info and I have in my possession and email from Hitachi stating that 'due to passage of time they will write it off' - I believe this is code for they cant find anything either), would an email and an RX3 suffice to start the ball rolling from us? Hitachi claim they are sending in an RX4(?) but wont confirm it has been done and it hasn't been actioned on the title yet.


    We have still got the transfer hanging on this and I would love to just put it to bed!!


    (LR - the title is WYK25929 if you are able to look for me, obviously I totally understand if you cant/are not allowed)


    Thanks for any advice!! x x x
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,754
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    faye242 wrote: »
    Hi LR/Eggbox,


    I was all happy and thought I had finished my quest...but apparently not... I am back for more advice!!


    I contacted the LR and posted a chq with an OC1 form(as recommended) I have had confirmation that the request was received on the 11/10 and the chq has been cashed early October. How long should it be before the information is sent out as we don't have it?


    This relates to a charge from Hitachi (I mentioned previously the court cant find any info and I have in my possession and email from Hitachi stating that 'due to passage of time they will write it off' - I believe this is code for they cant find anything either), would an email and an RX3 suffice to start the ball rolling from us? Hitachi claim they are sending in an RX4(?) but wont confirm it has been done and it hasn't been actioned on the title yet.


    We have still got the transfer hanging on this and I would love to just put it to bed!!


    (LR - the title is WYK25929 if you are able to look for me, obviously I totally understand if you cant/are not allowed)


    Thanks for any advice!! x x x

    Faye - OC requests are generally dealt with in a matter of days. If there's a delay then 7/10 working days at most. Not 3/4 weeks and silence.

    Looking at the record for that title it was processed in 17th Oct. if nothing received then complete our online contact form with the specific details and our support team will check and email you.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Hi LR,


    Thanks, I have already filled in the online form, we got a reply on the 28th stating


    Your application for an official copy of the court order was received on 11 October 2018, I have made a referral to the office copy section who should be in touch with you about the progress of this request.,


    But we still haven't heard anything via email or post, I just wanted to be sure this was normal. It would appear not if you say it was actioned on the 17th. I will refill it in and start again then.


    Can I reply to the email that we have been sent or should I start the online form again?


    Many thanks


    Faye
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,754
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    faye242 wrote: »
    Hi LR,


    Thanks, I have already filled in the online form, we got a reply on the 28th stating


    Your application for an official copy of the court order was received on 11 October 2018, I have made a referral to the office copy section who should be in touch with you about the progress of this request.,


    But we still haven't heard anything via email or post, I just wanted to be sure this was normal. It would appear not if you say it was actioned on the 17th. I will refill it in and start again then.


    Can I reply to the email that we have been sent or should I start the online form again?


    Many thanks


    Faye

    Reply to the email received - seems odd that nothing has happened
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • hayz347
    hayz347 Posts: 27 Forumite
    So scenario is......
    Went to sell home and was informed there was a judgement for a £19k debt in my name. Traced down where this debt stemmed from and contacted the court (it is a years old debt).
    Around 2 months ago I went to the court to fill out an affordability form with what I could repay.
    Heard nothing back.
    My partner has received a letter today saying a court order was issued on 31st October for an interim charging order. I have received no such letter and it is me who has the debt. I was also unaware of any court date.
    There is also mention on the letter of a form N379 being submitted it states:

    We enclose the following by way of service:
    1. Interim Charging Order in relation to the property; and
    2. Form N379 - Sealed application for charging order on land.

    I have been reading this thread and am very confused.

    Me and my partner have a 50/50 ownership of the home and we are completing on a property next week.
    Please can someone let me know where I stand and what the right steps to take are? I am under the impression from reading the thread that a charging order cannot be applied due to joint ownership and that it will be a restriction and that I have to let the creditor know and the debt will fall away? We do not want to loose our new home and fear that before completion another land registry search will show this order.
    This is an extremely old debt maybe 10 years or so old.
    HELP NEEDED :(
  • eggbox
    eggbox Posts: 1,764
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    edited 8 November 2018 at 8:41PM
    hayz347

    Firstly, if you can stand the loss the, CO amount will be deducted from the sale proceeds when you sell the property. It won't prevent the sale on that basis. If you can't, or don't want to stand the loss then read on.......

    A Charging Order is always a Charging Order. But it's how the CO can be registered against a debtors asset where the difference lies. In the case of property if the debt is against a sole owner, or joint owners who are both responsible for the debt, then the CO can be registered on the deeds in the same manner as secured loan can be (like a mortgage for instance?) If the property is ever to be sold then the charge has to be dealt with before the property can be transferred to a new owner.

    However, if the debt is only against one of the joint owners; then current Land Registry rules only allow a Restriction to be placed on the property deeds. A Restriction notifies that a CO exists against one of the joint owners. If the house is to be sold then, if the Restriciton is a standard Form K as most are; then all that is required to comply with the Restriction terms (to allow the house to be transferred to a new owner) is for the buyer to i) notify the creditor the house is being sold and ii) to certify to the Land Registry that notification has been made to the creditor.

    The Good News
    If both solicitors agree, then the proceeds from the sale can pass to the seller without having to pay off the charging order. Once the new owners details are registered then the Restricton falls off the deeds as it has overreached by the buyers purchase for money. The Charging Order still exists, but the seller has the proceeds and can choose when of if he pays the creditor?

    The Bad News
    Through ignorance of the Land Registry rules; only a handful of Solicitors understand the limitations of a Form K Restriction. But sellers have sold on the above basis so never say never?

    With regard to the Interim CO the creditor isn't required to notify the debtor when it applies for an interim CO. Your partner has been notified as he has an interest in the property concerned. If you are deciding to pay off the debts then it will be any debts notified on your deeds on the day of completion that will have to be paid off.

    If you are planning not to settle the debts from the proceeds of the sale the you need to get your solicitor up to speed quickly!
  • D_M_E
    D_M_E Posts: 3,008
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    Eggbox - Hayz347 says it's her debt, but the interim order was sent to her husband so it would appear that the creditor has obtained 2 orders againt the property, one in each name, both for the same debt.
    Does this mean 2 K-restrictions have been registered?

    Is this correct and if so, how would this scenario unfold, and how and why would Form N379 relate to this?
  • hayz347
    hayz347 Posts: 27 Forumite
    D_M_E & EGGBOX

    Thank you both for you replies very very helpful! I will review today.

    D_M_E - To clarify the letter reads "We understand you are the joint owner of xxxxx and as such we enclose the following by way of service:
    1. Interim Charging Order in relation to the property; and
    2. Form N379 - Sealed application for charging order on land.

    The debt is solely in my name

    Thanks Again - Any more advice greatly appreciated
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