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Link Parking / Gladstones - unclear signage Court Defence by 23 July

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  • bargepole
    bargepole Posts: 3,231 Forumite
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    Way too long, far too many subordinate clauses with inconsistent numbering (a, b, c and i, ii, iii, etc), and containing loads of stuff which is either completely irrelevant, or which belongs in a Skeleton Argument.

    It says almost nothing about the actual events which caused the ticket to be issued, which is the first thing the Judge will want to see.

    It's quite likely that a Judge will take one look at that, and think, "oh no, not another technical defence cribbed from the internet", that's if they haven't lost the will to live before getting half way through this rant.

    I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.
  • psdie
    psdie Posts: 126 Forumite
    Hi bp - thanks for replying - ironic that reads as cribbed, as lots of customisation. The Defence examples I've seen don't seem to try to talk through what happened on the date of parking, I'm under impression that's for the WS?

    Point taken with numbering, I'll switch to legal now - forgot as not seen a formatted example on here.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,349 Forumite
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    edited 23 July 2018 at 1:10PM
    That's too long and includes repetition, so remove all this except, keep c and d
    a. The Claimant's solicitors (Gladstones) are known to be a serial issuer of tens of thousands of automated generic claims similar to this one (so called 'robo claims'), with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details, or even checking for a valid Cause of Action. HMCS have reported identifying thousands of similar poorly pleaded claims, which are routinely dismissed by District Judges sitting in this Court and others throughout England & Wales.

    i. It is understood that Gladstones are under an active investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority as a result of its poor conduct. The firm was one of a handful specifically highlighted for unfair practices by MPs during 2018 debates of Sir Greg Knight MP's 'Parking (Code of Practice) Bill' in Parliament.

    ii. The Defendant argues that the Claimant's conduct in aggressively pursuing unrepresented consumers through the small claims track using an automated system provided by their solicitors is against the public interest and not something the courts should support.

    b. In common with other 'robo claims', the Particulars are sparse and fail to state what specific "terms of parking" are claimed to have been breached - i.e., no proper Cause of Action. A parking charge could be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge; each is treated differently in law and requires a different defence.

    c. The Particulars fail to provide a copy of the alleged contract or general terms as required under PD part 16 paragraphs 7.3(1) and (2). The wording of any contract will naturally be vital, and a copy of the claimed terms has never been provided to the Defendant.

    d. The Particulars state a claim amount substantially higher than those on the PCN and Notice to Keeper (NTK), including unrecoverable charges addressed later in this Defence. The charges are ambiguously described with a menu of choices ("Parking Charges / Damages and indemnity costs if applicable" - differing from prior descriptions), with no breakdown of the amount.


    e. For these reasons, the Defendant is unable to prepare a full and complete Defence.

    i. The Claimant's solicitors are understood to habitually delay providing detailed claims that can be properly responded to until late in proceedings - an abuse of process that significantly disadvantages unrepresented Defendants and shows contempt for the court.

    ii. Should the Claimant add to or expand their Particulars at a later stage of these proceedings, such as through their Witness Statement, the Defendant asks the Court permission to amend or supplement his Defence, and/or to limit the Claimant only to unevidenced allegations in the Particulars.

    iii. Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information (some of which has already been requested by the Defendant but the Claimant has refused to provide), after which the Defendant be allowed reasonable time to file an updated Defence:

    * Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and a clear description of the exact alleged cause of action;
    * A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place at the time of the incident;
    * How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time);
    * Whether the Defendant is being pursued as alleged driver, subject to strict proof, or as Registered Keeper.
    * Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter to provide strict proof;
    * The full legal identity of the landholder, with their contact details and a copy of the Claimant's contract (or full chain of contracts) with the landholder.
    * If charges over and above the initial charge are still being claimed, the specific claimed basis for these additions;
    * If interest charges are still being claimed, the detailed basis and calculation.

    Also remove all other repetition and waffle, and remove quotes like this:
    c. The IPC's Code of Practice Part B ("Establishing Yourself as the 'Creditor'") 1.1 states clearly:

    "If you operate parking management activities on land which is not owned by you, you must supply us with written authority from the land owner sufficient to establish you as the 'Creditor' within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where applicable) and in any event to establish you as a person who is able to recover parking charges. There is no prescribed form for such agreement and it need not necessarily be as part of a contract but it must include the express ability for an operator to recover parking charges on the landowner's behalf or provide sufficient right to occupy the land in question so that charges can be recovered by the operator directly. This applies whether or not you intend to use the keeper liability provisions."

    No need at this stage. That sort of detail comes later.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • psdie
    psdie Posts: 126 Forumite
    edited 23 July 2018 at 1:36PM
    Hi CM, BP - very confused and panicking a little with major changes in the very limited time left- the Code of Practice quotes, points about abuse of process / no cause of action etc are adapted from the recommended examples on this board - e.g., platypus80 vs Millenium (link) and Midy147 vs Gladstones (link). Those examples are also pretty long .. though granted I can see mine is comparatively longer (about 10 pages vs typical 6-7), oops :o

    I'm worried about taking arguments out and then not being able to rely on, going by the newbie guidance? The big opening Particulars section was aimed at hopefully getting claim dismissed before reaches hearing, but I can work to trim ..
  • psdie
    psdie Posts: 126 Forumite
    Here's a formatted PDF, which a lot easier to read - LINK
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,349 Forumite
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    edited 23 July 2018 at 1:45PM
    You are NOT taking arguments out, you are removing waffle.

    Remove what I said to remove, at least!

    If you have time, move the points in #8 up, higher in the defence, as that's your main argument.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • psdie
    psdie Posts: 126 Forumite
    edited 23 July 2018 at 2:31PM
    Updated (link)

    Revised particulars list removed, accidentally duped point #4 removed, IPC Creditor quote removed. The items in #4 RE Particulars of Claim - virtually every Defence I've read on here has points similar to these (robo claims, no cause of action, permission to revise defence) - I'm confused why should remove if most others include?

    I'll look at moving the Signage section #8 up (now #7), which yes is core non-technicality arg - at the moment it follows the Background section to provide context, but think I can adjust.

    Thank you for the hand holding - appreciated :)
  • psdie
    psdie Posts: 126 Forumite
    edited 23 July 2018 at 2:43PM
    Lots of trimming, bringing down to 8 pages, which is similar to others I've seen. I removed examples of won cases, presume can cite later. Updated (link).

    I could remove the summary of reasons the claim is unreasonable at the end - though keen to secure costs to make up for this ball ache, so perhaps it's helpful?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,349 Forumite
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    That'll do, you now have 45 minutes to print it, sign & date it, scan it back in and save it as a PDF to upload to the CCBCAQ.justice email.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • psdie
    psdie Posts: 126 Forumite
    OK, as it's 8 pages, I've printed and signed the last page, scanned, then appended to a PDF containing pages 1-7. I presume that's OK, or do they really insist on scanning all pages so the PDF is massive (and I need to do 8 append operations)? Just about time to scan rest if necessary! Thanks
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