Can cyclists answer me why??

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  • esuhl
    esuhl Posts: 9,409
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    Pedestrians are allowed to walk in cycle lanes. They're also allowed to walk in the road.

    Surely if I walked along a busy road (as opposed to the pavement), I could be arrested for causing an obstruction...?
  • sacsquacco wrote: »
    in normal street conditions we dont really need any light as we are all quite visible, only on the darkest country roads do we need some sort of artificial glow. Dont tell me that we are not seen whether we show a piddling little glow on the back or not. every one can see us anyway. its just another excuse by moaning car drivers to have a go at us

    I completely disagree with this and your attitude. Don't get me wrong, while I understand and agree the point that cyclists should be quite visible in well-lit streets, that same argument could be used about all vehicles being driven in well-lit streets, and yet I still use my headlights driving at night regardless of street-lighting. It brings us back to a comment made by another user about lighting being as much about being seen as it is about being able to see.

    I do feel quite sorry for the OP after a few individuals have virtually ganged up on them, the OP raised a valid frustration/query (albeit not money saving) and some of the responses have demonstrated well the ignorance of many road users.

    Personally, while having lights on may not be a necessity (regardless of it being night or day), I have found myself to be very grateful to all cyclists and motorcyclists who take the sensible extra precautions to ensure they maximise their visibility. There can be a lot of information to take in when on the road, especially in some well-lit streets, whether it be because you're not familiar with the area, or that there is a lot of traffic on the road, or any other reason people might be able to come up with.

    And I don't think its about discrimination against cyclists either, or about drivers having an excuse to moan at them. Firstly, I know that I would struggle to come to terms with the idea of having hit, injured, or even killed a cyclist, regardless of whether or not it was the fault of the cyclist for not wearing suitable protective wear or for not having/using lights. Secondly, while the rule applies to other road users as well (yes, we've all seen numpties driving around without lights in dark and/or foggy conditions), I think it's reasonable to assume that in most scenario's a cyclist (or motorcyclist) is going to come out worse if hit by a vehicle due to poor visibility than a person in another vehicle.

    By the way, I haven't cycled for quite a few years but have previously had plenty of experience with both cycling in towns and countryside lanes. My daily drive to and from work also consists of driving through towns and countryside roads, fortunately most of the cyclists I encounter do make themselves very visible. My frustrations lie more around those who choose to cycle on a 60mph road when there is a dedicated cycle path for them to use alongside the very same road; and the chap who, on 2 occasions now, has decided that the give way sign at the end of the junction that joins the road I drive on doesn't apply to him, and so just comes sailing straight out into the main road completely disregarding oncoming traffic (sorry, just had to slip my own personal little rant in there)!
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  • andrewf75
    andrewf75 Posts: 10,421
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    Twiggy_34 wrote: »
    My frustrations lie more around those who choose to cycle on a 60mph road when there is a dedicated cycle path for them to use alongside the very same road; and the chap who, on 2 occasions now, has decided that the give way sign at the end of the junction that joins the road I drive on doesn't apply to him, and so just comes sailing straight out into the main road completely disregarding oncoming traffic (sorry, just had to slip my own personal little rant in there)!

    Thats completely wrong of course, but the root cause of this kind of behaviour is the fact that our roads have not catered for cyclists as well as they should have. Where you get proper segregated cycle tracks, they often completely stop when you reach a junction, whereas in countries with proper cycling infrastructure the cycle lane is also part of the junction. Because of these kind of frustrations, you get a certain type of cyclist whose reaction to being marginalised is to cycle aggressively and make a nuisance of himself.

    If you want proof that the way people cycle in this country is because of the lack of cycling infrastructure, just go to a country where cyclists aren't treated as second class citizens.
  • brat
    brat Posts: 2,533 Forumite
    Twiggy_34 wrote: »
    My frustrations lie more around those who choose to cycle on a 60mph road when there is a dedicated cycle path for them to use alongside the very same road; and the chap who, on 2 occasions now, has decided that the give way sign at the end of the junction that joins the road I drive on doesn't apply to him, and so just comes sailing straight out into the main road completely disregarding oncoming traffic (sorry, just had to slip my own personal little rant in there)!

    Both of those people could be me!

    I'm just back from a 35 mile ride, where for much of the ride I was on the 60mph road rather than the cycle path. When there was the opportunity and the cycle path is convenient, and is not one that I know to be dangerous for a cyclist who is happy to sit at 20 to 25 mph, then I will get on it, but otherwise I will stay on the road. I do occasionally get horn blasts by those who feel they know better, and an arm directing me onto the cycle path, but I value my safety, and overall, if I feel safer on the road, I'll stay on the road.

    Regarding the give way, you often find that cyclists have already sussed that a give way crossroads is crossable even before a motorist has seen you. I often take the opportunity to go straight across a give way without slowing very much, because I know the manoeuvre is going to be completely safe. I'm sure a few car drivers might think they had to slow down for me, but the truth is their observations were slightly lacking, so they responded to being taken slightly by surprise rather than any actual considered risk avoidance.
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  • Twiggy_34 wrote: »
    I completely disagree with this and your attitude. Don't get me wrong, while I understand and agree the point that cyclists should be quite visible in well-lit streets, that same argument could be used about all vehicles being driven in well-lit streets, and yet I still use my headlights driving at night regardless of street-lighting. It brings us back to a comment made by another user about lighting being as much about being seen as it is about being able to see.

    I do feel quite sorry for the OP after a few individuals have virtually ganged up on them, the OP raised a valid frustration/query (albeit not money saving) and some of the responses have demonstrated well the ignorance of many road users.

    Personally, while having lights on may not be a necessity (regardless of it being night or day), I have found myself to be very grateful to all cyclists and motorcyclists who take the sensible extra precautions to ensure they maximise their visibility. There can be a lot of information to take in when on the road, especially in some well-lit streets, whether it be because you're not familiar with the area, or that there is a lot of traffic on the road, or any other reason people might be able to come up with.

    And I don't think its about discrimination against cyclists either, or about drivers having an excuse to moan at them. Firstly, I know that I would struggle to come to terms with the idea of having hit, injured, or even killed a cyclist, regardless of whether or not it was the fault of the cyclist for not wearing suitable protective wear or for not having/using lights. Secondly, while the rule applies to other road users as well (yes, we've all seen numpties driving around without lights in dark and/or foggy conditions), I think it's reasonable to assume that in most scenario's a cyclist (or motorcyclist) is going to come out worse if hit by a vehicle due to poor visibility than a person in another vehicle.

    By the way, I haven't cycled for quite a few years but have previously had plenty of experience with both cycling in towns and countryside lanes. My daily drive to and from work also consists of driving through towns and countryside roads, fortunately most of the cyclists I encounter do make themselves very visible. My frustrations lie more around those who choose to cycle on a 60mph road when there is a dedicated cycle path for them to use alongside the very same road; and the chap who, on 2 occasions now, has decided that the give way sign at the end of the junction that joins the road I drive on doesn't apply to him, and so just comes sailing straight out into the main road completely disregarding oncoming traffic (sorry, just had to slip my own personal little rant in there)!

    So if I shot someone it might be their fault for not wearing a bullet-proof vest?!?!
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  • andygb
    andygb Posts: 14,631
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    sacsquacco wrote: »
    I have never ever failed to see a cyclist on the road at night whether hes displaying a little red glow or not, you need to get down to specsavers if you dont see the bikes or not.


    As an ex cyclist who always used lights, I am stunned by your post. I have really good eyeseight and excellent night vision, but believe me when I say that you can hardly see unlit cyclists at night in rain, mist, the glare of oncoming headlights - forget Specsavers (other purveyors of optical assistance allowed), you would need radar.
    Cyclists need to do EVERYTHING possible to make themselves safe, and the most important thing is being visible.
  • howill
    howill Posts: 12 Forumite
    edited 6 December 2013 at 5:13PM
    At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.
    Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24

    You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.
    Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)

    You MUST NOT cycle on a footway or footpath unless on a cycle track where one has been provided.
    Law RTRO Art 3

    The above is the law and a direct quotation from the Highway Code for Cyclists.
    The fact that the police these days can't be bothered to enforce the law, or that about cyclists obeying traffic lights or not riding on pavements, is neither here nor there.
  • Altarf
    Altarf Posts: 2,916
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    Avoriaz wrote: »
    They do tend to walk up the middle of a cycle path, even when there is a pedestrian path right beside it and the cycle path is clearly marked as such.

    It seems that you (and lots of cyclists) fail to understand that the whole pavement is pavement, even if cyclists are permitted to cycle on part of it.
  • skivenov
    skivenov Posts: 2,204 Forumite
    And more to the point, since when were cyclists allowed to use blue strobing front lights? There seems to be loads around here lately.
    Yes it's overwhelming, but what else can we do?
    Get jobs in offices and wake up for the morning commute?
  • howill
    howill Posts: 12 Forumite
    OK, semantics, for pavement read footpath, (as opposed to carriageway) obviously.
This discussion has been closed.
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