Responsibility for flight delay

Quillsnpens · 5 August 2019 at 11:01AM

All
Apologies for the long post

We recently booked a packaged holiday with a tour operator (Atol protected) for flights and accommodations for a long haul journey.

Our flight from London (and therefore EU flight) was with a third party airline and got delayed by 2.5 hours due to Heathrow not having a slot for the airline to take-off in time, as a result of which we missed our connection and landed in our final destination 16 hours later due to the final destination only having a couple of flights a day from our connecting airport. The flight itself was fully boarded and ready on time but could not take off due to air traffic management which I understand is one of the extenuating circumstances under which compensation is not due.

Since we arrived at our destination so late we basically missed one night in our holiday destination.

I’d like to know if we have any recourse to claim compensation against the tour operator or our travel insurance (with the airline being unlikely?) or do we just have to take the hit as bad luck

I have highlighted below the relevant clauses from the terms and conditions of the tour operator for delays and from our travel insurance.

Tour Operator
We also have a liability to you for the performance of the travel services included in your Holiday, irrespective of the fact that the travel services might actually be provided by one of our third party suppliers. You must tell us immediately of any failure to perform or improper performance of your Holiday (“Failure”). This will give us the opportunity to resolve the Failure whilst you are on your Holiday. If we refuse to do so, or it’s necessary to resolve the Failure immediately, then you may resolve the Failure yourself and request reimbursement of reasonable expenses from us. However, these rights will not arise if remedying the Failure is impossible or entails disproportionate costs. In that case, your only right will be to seek a price reduction or compensation in accordance with paragraph 23.
[Note: talks about failure but not sure if this still applies if it wasn’t the airlines fault but the airports?]
23. OUR LIABILITY TO YOU FOR YOUR HOLIDAY (i) We will offer you an appropriate price reduction for any period during which there is a Failure (as described in paragraph 14), unless that Failure is attributable to you

16. FLIGHT DELAYS We work closely with the airlines and overseas offices to make sure any flight delay is as short as possible. When a delay occurs we will try to make sure refreshments or meals are provided when appropriate. We won’t do this ourselves though, because it will normally be the responsibility of the airline to do this. If you’ve purchased our recommended travel insurance, or a comparable policy, you should be covered if there’s a long delay.

Travel Insurance

What IS covered:
1. A delay resulting in you departing at least 12 hours after your original scheduled
departure time;
Delayed departure
• A benefit for the first complete 12 hours of your delay, then
• A benefit for every complete 12 hour delay after that;

Thanks a lot

Tyzap · 5 August 2019 at 11:39AM

Hi Quillsnpens,

I'm going to have to make a few assumptions here due to lack of some detail.

It sounds like the liability in this case is with the airline, under the EU261 regulations for flight delays.

Airlines don't just turn up or depart from an airport without landing or departure slots already organised in advance. Without pre planned and organised slots the airport, especially slot restricted ones like Heathrow, would grind to a halt.

If an aircraft misses it's pre planned departure slot beyond just a few minutes, it will have to apply for another slot. This can often cause long further delays. The airline then often claim it is an ATC delay and try to pass off any EU261 claims in an effort to avoid any liability.

However, generally speaking, if the airline missed a departure slot due to a delay loading passengers, luggage etc etc it is often the airline who must accept responsibility. There are some exceptions, but few and far between.

First off, put in an EU261 claim via the airlines website and see what they say. Long haul delays would mean €600 per passenger.

Other elements of your delay/claim may come under other EU legislation, such as the Travel Package Directive, and also travel insurance, but that is outside the scope of this flight delay thread I'm afraid.

Good luck.

bagand96 · 9 August 2019 at 9:42AM

It will depend on the reason for the “slot delay”.

You say the aircraft was boarded and ready to go on time but could not depart due to an ATC delay. ATC delays (slots) can be for any number of reasons - and not just for a slot at the departing airport (Heathrow). ATC is coordinated across Europe, so your flight may have had restrictions over some airspace in the UK, or further afield. It’s been pretty bad in the last few weeks, peak summer season and a lot of stormy wether, in the UK and across Europe. With storms, it’s often the case that ATC capacity is reduced at airport - but also en-route.

I’d agree with the above poster that it’s worth putting in an EU261 claim, it always is, but it may be the case that it was an ATC delay beyond the airlines control.

Quillsnpens · 9 August 2019 at 11:13AM

Thanks for the replies.

I have now put in a flight claim with the airline through resolver.

Re the slots. I only know what the pilot announced. Our flight was scheduled to leave at 20:30 and and 20:10 the pilot announced that we were ready to leave (I'm inclined to believe this statement since i was seated towards the front and saw the cabin crew close the doors and no passengers entered after) but that Heathrow was facing a backlog and they had given us a slot of 21:50 to leave and then another announcement around 15-20 mins later that this had been further pushed back and we were now going to leave at 23:00. I have no way to verify if this is true or not or of there were other factors that caused the airline to miss their initial slot as mentioned in the second post.

I guess I'm just a bit peeved, since this was supposed to be our honeymoon and spending 15 hours in an airport hotel wasn't the best of starts.

I do however understand, if this is no one's fault but i was also wondering if the airline does not accept responsibility, if i should be able to get a refund for the one night we missed from our tour operator. Again this is out of their control but the contract was for 6 nights and we only got 5 nights so even if its not compensation i think they should at least just refund the one night we didn't get to stay at the hotel. I guess in my opinion the point of booking a package was that all of these discrete bits of the holiday get sorted by someone else and it becomes their responsibility to deliver.

Sorry for the rant.

Quillsnpens · 22 August 2019 at 3:47PM

Hello, I've received the following reply from the airline

Regarding the delay of your flight, this was caused by Air Traffic Control (ATC) congestion.

"I note that you are requesting for compensation under the EC261/2004 Regulation. However allow me to explain that the EU Regulation 261/ 2004 will apply in respect of delays of 4 hours or more, which are not due to extraordinary reasons, from an EU airport. ATC is classified as extraordinary."

i've replied to say that:

per Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia judgment, even in the case of “extraordinary circumstances”, the airline should have to demonstrate that “even if it had deployed all its resources in terms of staff or equipment and the financial means at its disposal, it would clearly not have been able – unless it had made intolerable sacrifices – to prevent the extraordinary circumstances with which it was confronted from leading to the delay of the flight”.

Accordingly i had asked for a alternative flight from a neighboring airport in the same country a couple of hours away from another airline which should have been easy for them to arrange.

Is there anything else i can do?

Tyzap · 22 August 2019 at 9:40PM

You could point out that flight delay compensation is due after a delay of 3 hours, not 4 as they state. Looks like they got that wrong too.

Perhaps also mention that if they missed their departure slot due to a delay, and then had to apply for another slot which further delayed departure, that would not be regarded as an ATC delay as ATC was not the initial cause.

The rest is good.

isplumm · 3 September 2019 at 6:30PM

there is a tool that you can put your flight details into & that will tell you whether you can claim.

This topic has more info - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4896454

Responsibility for flight delay

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