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    • SparkOfDeath
    • By SparkOfDeath 19th Oct 19, 11:40 PM
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    SparkOfDeath
    Blocked account because buyer claimed unauthorised payment
    • #1
    • 19th Oct 19, 11:40 PM
    Blocked account because buyer claimed unauthorised payment 19th Oct 19 at 11:40 PM
    Hi there, I've made an account to ask for advice on a stressful problem that's turned up.

    So I've sold a couple of very expensive items privately to a seller who agreed to pay £10,000 for them. The first time he tried to send the £10K to my account, Santander bounced it back immediately and blocked my account until I let them interrogate me over the phone and in the branch about why 10K was coming into my account.

    At the end of that visit, they unblocked my account, apologised and encouraged me to have the 10K come in again if the buyer resent it. The buyer agreed, but this time he decided to send it to my account in smaller instalments over a few days as to try and avoid all of that happening again.

    As soon as I received the final amount, I used the money to pay off a couple of credit cards and loans from friends. Two days later Santander have blocked my account again. This time they say that they were contacted by another bank to say that only one of the instalments (of about £1400) was unauthorised and that I must now come into the bank with proof or a statement from the buyers bank account.

    In a ridiculous turn of events, the buyers phone has been permanently off and hasn't been replying to any texts or messages on the selling website he found me on.

    It's likely there's some scam going on here that I'm not savvy too, but I'm here hoping for some advice for when I go into the bank on Monday to explain all of this.

    How likely is it that they're going to demand I return that instalment of £1400, or even the whole £10K even though I've already paid debts with it? What rights have I got against the bank or this buyer here?

    Cheers in advance!
Page 2
    • born again
    • By born again 21st Oct 19, 9:55 PM
    • 552 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    born again
    So where are the items then?

    Police it is with the buyers details if you have sent them is your only way..
    • SparkOfDeath
    • By SparkOfDeath 23rd Oct 19, 1:28 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    SparkOfDeath
    Hi all, thankyou for your comments and help, I can share with you the outcome of the situation.
    To answer that last question briefly, I didn't post the items, they were picked up in a van, so I even met the guy but no one at the bank has asked me for his phone number or even what he looks like.

    I gave the bank screenshots of the gumtree listings and the gumtree conversation, and the bank approved of these in my favour. Unfortunately because I'd already used some of the cash to pay off debts and credit cards, they say they have no choice but to close my account and not let me bank with Santander again, for how long I don't know
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 23rd Oct 19, 2:22 PM
    • 608 Posts
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    Penelopa.Pitstop
    So what about £1400? Did they freeze it and asked you to return it or were you allowed to keep it? Why do they still close the account? What if you didn't use the money? Would they want it back then?

    Make sure they don't put fraud marker on your name, as it will make your life difficult.

    • born again
    • By born again 23rd Oct 19, 8:38 PM
    • 552 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    born again
    but no one at the bank has asked me for his phone number or even what he looks like.
    Originally posted by SparkOfDeath
    Why would they? They can nor do anything with the details. That information is what the police need for their investigation.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 23rd Oct 19, 9:35 PM
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    Terry Towelling
    Can someone with more intimate banking knowledge confirm that a 'receiving' bank would bounce an incoming payment and then ask questions about it? If there was some suspicion over the source of the funds, wouldn't the correct process be to accept the funds and then seize them by blocking the account? It can't be that the sending bank tried to 'recall' the payment, or the statement that Santander tried to encourage re-sending the money wouldn't make sense.
    • SparkOfDeath
    • By SparkOfDeath 24th Oct 19, 12:10 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    SparkOfDeath
    So the first question here is about the £1400, it had already been spent (on credit cards and debts with friends) so the whole reason why my account (and prospects of ever banking with santander again) was closed was because I had kept this fraudulent money and they had no power to seaze it from me.

    Next comment is about the bank bouncing the original 10K I received, they told me themselves that it's unusual for money coming in to be an issue, usually it's large amounts of money going out.. So not even I know why they jumped on rejecting that 10K, even before any of this fraudulent activity had come to light
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 24th Oct 19, 1:44 PM
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    Terry Towelling
    Next comment is about the bank bouncing the original 10K I received, they told me themselves that it's unusual for money coming in to be an issue, usually it's large amounts of money going out.. So not even I know why they jumped on rejecting that 10K, even before any of this fraudulent activity had come to light
    Originally posted by SparkOfDeath
    Would you be prepared to ask Santander for a proper explanation as to why they bounced an incoming payment? I know that doesn't help your plight but it will help me to understand what on earth they are doing. Thank you.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 24th Oct 19, 10:10 PM
    • 26,165 Posts
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    jonesMUFCforever
    Would you be prepared to ask Santander for a proper explanation as to why they bounced an incoming payment? I know that doesn't help your plight but it will help me to understand what on earth they are doing. Thank you.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    Did they though? or is it a question of the original payment being stopped by the sender's bank as it caused them to be suspicious?
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • SparkOfDeath
    • By SparkOfDeath 25th Oct 19, 1:28 PM
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    • 0 Thanks
    SparkOfDeath
    It actually is indeed the first conclusion, that it was simply blocked and rejected because it was a suspiciously large amount of money coming into my account, 10k would be the largest amount my bank had ever seen come in during the 15 years I was with santander. I still think it was rediculous though, there was no mention of anything fraudulent at that point in time, they just pounced on me because they felt like it
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 25th Oct 19, 1:35 PM
    • 65,294 Posts
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    Thrugelmir
    I still think it was rediculous though, there was no mention of anything fraudulent at that point in time, they just pounced on me because they felt like it
    Originally posted by SparkOfDeath
    Then your buyer uses other accounts to effect the transfer. Why not use the same account. More going on than you know.
    ““there really is no such thing as ‘the future’, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.””
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 25th Oct 19, 8:37 PM
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    Terry Towelling
    It actually is indeed the first conclusion, that it was simply blocked and rejected because it was a suspiciously large amount of money coming into my account, 10k would be the largest amount my bank had ever seen come in during the 15 years I was with santander. I still think it was rediculous though, there was no mention of anything fraudulent at that point in time, they just pounced on me because they felt like it
    Originally posted by SparkOfDeath
    I'm not certain that FCA rules permit a bank to do this with incoming payments made electronically. Sorry, @SparkOfDeath, you're on your own with this one now. I can offer no more because, if I say what I really believe has happened here, people will jump on me with righteous indignation.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 25th Oct 19, 11:03 PM
    • 2,804 Posts
    • 2,156 Thanks
    boo_star
    It actually is indeed the first conclusion, that it was simply blocked and rejected because it was a suspiciously large amount of money coming into my account, 10k would be the largest amount my bank had ever seen come in during the 15 years I was with santander. I still think it was rediculous though, there was no mention of anything fraudulent at that point in time, they just pounced on me because they felt like it
    Originally posted by SparkOfDeath
    Nonsense. They just don't do that, and I speak from personal experience having a few tens of thousands paid into my account at one point and moving it around a bit AND working for a bank.

    They might question where the funds came from, but only after they land in your account.
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 26th Oct 19, 11:07 AM
    • 1,867 Posts
    • 1,394 Thanks
    18cc
    The reason a bank may block an account when funds arrive into it is if there is some sort of marker on the account the money was sent from.

    For example, that account my be under investigation for money laundering, money muling, fraud etc etc.

    That is why, to a certain extent, we are all at risk when we allow payments into our account from other accounts - you never truly know the status of the sending account.

    For example, a fraudster could defraud a person out of they life savings by telling them to move it into a 'safe account'. The fraudster then uses that money to purchase something off Gumtree and they collect it. Meanwhile, the person realises they have been defrauded, complains and the sending bank is frozen. They see a large amount has gone out to another account (yours) and so they ask for that to be frozen. The first you know of it is that your bank account is frozen and then your expensive item has disappeared into the sunset on the back of a van.
    Last edited by 18cc; 26-10-2019 at 11:10 AM.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 26th Oct 19, 1:33 PM
    • 2,057 Posts
    • 1,725 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    The reason a bank may block an account when funds arrive into it is if there is some sort of marker on the account the money was sent from.

    For example, that account my be under investigation for money laundering, money muling, fraud etc etc.

    That is why, to a certain extent, we are all at risk when we allow payments into our account from other accounts - you never truly know the status of the sending account.

    For example, a fraudster could defraud a person out of they life savings by telling them to move it into a 'safe account'. The fraudster then uses that money to purchase something off Gumtree and they collect it. Meanwhile, the person realises they have been defrauded, complains and the sending bank is frozen. They see a large amount has gone out to another account (yours) and so they ask for that to be frozen. The first you know of it is that your bank account is frozen and then your expensive item has disappeared into the sunset on the back of a van.
    Originally posted by 18cc
    This doesn't sound appropriate for what OP has described, though. OP's account was only frozen after the £10K had been allegedly bounced. If the sending account had a marker on it, surely the sending bank would have stopped the transfer. OP quite clearly confirms the receiving bank bounced the payment

    If money is 'suspect' and someone tries to transfer it, it would normally be blocked by the sending bank. If it isn't 'suspect' at that point, but the receiving bank suspects it may be, and bounces it straight back to the sender, that means the money is still 'at large' and the sender has another opportunity to do something potentially illegal with it. The only correct way for a bank to deal with 'suspect' funds (in my opinion) is to hold on to them and then freeze the receiving account.


    What OP describes just doesn't hang together.
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