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    • DAB 53
    • By DAB 53 16th Oct 19, 5:40 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    DAB 53
    Permitted Development Rights
    • #1
    • 16th Oct 19, 5:40 PM
    Permitted Development Rights 16th Oct 19 at 5:40 PM
    Looking for advice, we have just moved into a new build house and found a problem with the wood burning stove that we have had fitted. It transpires that when planning permission was granted for the development the local planning authority removed Permitted Development Rights and have informed us that we have to apply for planning permission because the flue for our stove is outside the house and therefore contravenes the withdrawn PRD’s because it changes the external appearance. We are not in a conservation area we just have neighbours who opposed the initial new build development who have now complained about our flue being ‘unsightly’.
    We’ve spoken to a planning specialist who has give us a quote in excess of £3000 to help us through the process, but we can’t really afford that.
    Any thoughts?
Page 1
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 16th Oct 19, 5:50 PM
    • 13,467 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 19, 5:50 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 19, 5:50 PM
    (a) wait to see if the planners actually want to take enforcement action, or
    (b) get rid of your stove.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 16th Oct 19, 6:15 PM
    • 4,770 Posts
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 19, 6:15 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 19, 6:15 PM
    (a) wait to see if the planners actually want to take enforcement action, or
    (b) get rid of your stove.
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    Maybe (c), which is reroute the chimney through the house and out through the roof. That still might not satisfy planning if they consider it a material change of appearance, but they might consider it acceptable compared to what is presumably currently a shiny tube running the entire height of the house.

    This is the drawback of these stoves where there's no chimney to line and use, the house ends up looking like a takeaway.
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 16th Oct 19, 7:20 PM
    • 2,641 Posts
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 19, 7:20 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 19, 7:20 PM
    (d) submit the planning application yourself.

    Have you been able to speak with a planning officer from the council to see what the chances of getting permission are?
    Last edited by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head; 16-10-2019 at 10:53 PM.
    • DAB 53
    • By DAB 53 16th Oct 19, 9:52 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    DAB 53
    • #5
    • 16th Oct 19, 9:52 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Oct 19, 9:52 PM
    To clarify the chimney does already go through the roof and just sticks out by around a metre. The planing enforcement officer has indicated that we need to submit an application within 28 days and I am concerned about the prospect of being unsuccessful.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 16th Oct 19, 11:02 PM
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #6
    • 16th Oct 19, 11:02 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Oct 19, 11:02 PM
    All you can do is submit a retrospective application and see what happens.

    Hopefully for you it gets approved but with a neighbour likely to object it may not be straightforward. If it’s not approved, you’ll have to take down the new chimney. I’m afraid you have been a bit hasty getting it installed without checking what was required.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 17th Oct 19, 12:59 AM
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    hollydays
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 19, 12:59 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 19, 12:59 AM
    Did the fitter not give you any advice?
    • DAB 53
    • By DAB 53 17th Oct 19, 7:45 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    DAB 53
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 19, 7:45 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 19, 7:45 AM
    Again I can clarify that we did check before installing the fire - normal arrangements are that no planning permission is needed, just a certificate from the fitter. We even checked with the pre-planning advice team who confirmed that was correct but they wouldn’t have known that our Permitted Development Rights has been withdrawn as we didn’t. Our fitter has never come across this previously despite fitting hundreds of stoves.
    • paddyandstumpy
    • By paddyandstumpy 17th Oct 19, 7:58 AM
    • 1,286 Posts
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    paddyandstumpy
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 19, 7:58 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 19, 7:58 AM
    Your solicitor when you purchased should have made you aware of this restriction.

    From what I can gather, withdrawal of PD on new builds is relatively common.
    Our 5 year old house has this restriction, our solicitor told us when we bought it last year.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 17th Oct 19, 8:57 AM
    • 4,770 Posts
    • 6,442 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    Again I can clarify that we did check before installing the fire - normal arrangements are that no planning permission is needed, just a certificate from the fitter. We even checked with the pre-planning advice team who confirmed that was correct but they wouldn’t have known that our Permitted Development Rights has been withdrawn as we didn’t. Our fitter has never come across this previously despite fitting hundreds of stoves.
    Originally posted by DAB 53
    I see. As others have asked, presumably your solicitor took you through the appropriate papers when you bought the house. It should have been brought up/noticed then. Check what your paperwork says, I suspect it's noted in there.

    It doesn't change your position. You will have to apply for retrospective planning and hope it's approved. One option if it's refused would be to remove the chimney from the roof and swap the wood burner for an electric effect one. It means the flue is redundant but saves ripping the whole length of the flue from the house if it's all been decorated, etc.
    • ToxicWomble
    • By ToxicWomble 17th Oct 19, 12:57 PM
    • 149 Posts
    • 224 Thanks
    ToxicWomble
    Most new builds have some sort of restrictions on them.
    We weren’t allowed works vehicles, boats or vans to be parked on the estate or to paint our front doors for a 5 years period.
    We were made aware of these restrictions at the time of purchase by both the sales people and the solicitors
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 17th Oct 19, 1:03 PM
    • 13,467 Posts
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    davidmcn
    Most new builds have some sort of restrictions on them.
    We weren’t allowed works vehicles, boats or vans to be parked on the estate or to paint our front doors for a 5 years period.
    Originally posted by ToxicWomble
    Those sound like title covenants rather than planning matters.
    • thearchitect
    • By thearchitect 21st Oct 19, 1:49 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    thearchitect
    Apologies forcoming to this late.


    Permitted development rights (PDRs) are rights to make certain changes to a building, typically very minor, without the need to apply for planning permission. This is to avoid over burdening the system with straightforward items.


    Where PDRs have been removed, it simply means that the local authority wish to apply greater scrutiny: it does not, in itself, mean that such work will be refused a priori. If the latter were the objective of the planning authority then then would have specifically excluded such work by way of condition.


    Making an application yourself is fairly straightforward and does not necessarily require a planning consultant, although there are advantags in having one prepare a supporting statement explaining why the proposal does not contravene the policies set out in the local development plan. That only leaves the need for drawings, which I would not expect to cost £3k for something straightforward.


    Alternatively you could wait to see whether the planning authority serves you with enforcement notices. If it is likely that the works would receive consent, i.e. this is a paperwork exercise, then they may not. You would, however, have to be ready to move quickly to an application if such paperwork did arrive.


    Have you any idea why PDRs were removed? Why not ask for the original planning report/report of handling to see what the problem is/was?
    Health Warning: I am happy to occasionally comment on building matters on the forum. However it is simply not possible to give comprehensive professional technical advice on an internet forum. Any comments made are therefore only of a general nature to point you in what is hopefully the right direction.
    • DAB 53
    • By DAB 53 30th Oct 19, 5:06 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    DAB 53
    Many thanks for all replies.. we have found a route with specialist planning advice at a lesser cost and have a copy of the original planning consent so are now able to proceed with an application for consent. I checked back on our solicitors advice re purchasing the house and it wasn’t identified anywhere which our planning specialist said he knows does happen so hope our learning can help others.
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