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  • FIRST POST
    • Ownerofawreck
    • By Ownerofawreck 23rd Sep 19, 9:20 PM
    • 23Posts
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    Ownerofawreck
    Added son to house deeds.
    • #1
    • 23rd Sep 19, 9:20 PM
    Added son to house deeds. 23rd Sep 19 at 9:20 PM
    Not sure if this is the right place to post this.
    When I bought my house I added my son as joint owner with me. This was purely and simply to make things easier when I die as I have nothing other than the house to leave him. I did the same on my old house following a couple of major health problems but, I think I have made a mistake. My son who is currently renting wants to start saving to buy a property for himself and has friends on the Help To Buy scheme etc., He lives over 200 miles from me so cannot move home to save more. Should I remove his name from the house and if I do does it mean that he will no longer be classed as a first time buyer ? Son is taking it in his stride that he will not qualify as he knows he will benefit eventually. But I feel really bad to have messed things up for him.
Page 1
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 23rd Sep 19, 9:44 PM
    • 4,932 Posts
    • 12,371 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #2
    • 23rd Sep 19, 9:44 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Sep 19, 9:44 PM
    It might not only the ftb status he gets stung on.....he may have to pay extra stamp duty as any house he buys will, effectively be his 2nd property
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card / JD Williams cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge
    • calleyw
    • By calleyw 23rd Sep 19, 10:53 PM
    • 9,230 Posts
    • 17,205 Thanks
    calleyw
    • #3
    • 23rd Sep 19, 10:53 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Sep 19, 10:53 PM
    But I feel really bad to have messed things up for him.
    Originally posted by Ownerofawreck
    Both you and your son should have sought legal advice before doing this. So are both responsible for the mess.

    Why would adding his name make it any easier when you die? he would still have to remove your name. Maybe when push comes to shove and you are gone he might not want to live there. And sells up.

    He will not be classed as FTB as he has had his name on two properties now. The only thing removing his name will help with as already mentioned is stamp duty.

    This would be better moved over to housing board.

    Yours

    Calley x
    Last edited by calleyw; 23-09-2019 at 10:55 PM.
    Hope for everything and expect nothing!!!

    Good enough is almost always good enough -Prof Barry Schwartz

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  • archived user
    • #4
    • 23rd Sep 19, 11:13 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Sep 19, 11:13 PM
    I don't think you have messed things up. Your son is right to be taking it in his stride, in the short term it may mean he will have to save more and for longer before buying ( depends where and on house prices falling or rising). But there are advantages, which is what you may have considered at the time, to being either 'joint tenants' or 'tenants in common'.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 23rd Sep 19, 11:25 PM
    • 7,122 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #5
    • 23rd Sep 19, 11:25 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Sep 19, 11:25 PM
    I don't think you have messed things up. Your son is right to be taking it in his stride, in the short term it may mean he will have to save more and for longer before buying ( depends where and on house prices falling or rising). But there are advantages, which is what you may have considered at the time, to being either 'joint tenants' or 'tenants in common'.
    Originally posted by Purbeck
    Lumbering him with an unnecessary tax bill is messing it up in my book, and there will be another one to come along after the OPs death as they are likely to be hit with CGT liability when the house is sold.

    Taking him off the ownership will save the second home stamp duty bill, but could lumber him with a CGT liability as he will be disposing of his share of a house that is not his residence. Even though no money is changing hands for tax purposes it is treated is a disposal at full market valuation.
    • Lover of Lycra
    • By Lover of Lycra 24th Sep 19, 6:27 AM
    • 490 Posts
    • 1,319 Thanks
    Lover of Lycra
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 19, 6:27 AM
    • #6
    • 24th Sep 19, 6:27 AM
    It has already been posted on the Housing board before.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6044112

    Before you attempt to DIY this please seek professional advice. Removing your son’s name could trigger a Capital Gain Tax liability for your son even if he gives you his share for nothing. Keeping him as an owner could trigger the higher rate of SDLT on his next purchase. It all has to do with his beneficial interest in your home rather than legal ownership.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 24th Sep 19, 8:31 AM
    • 7,122 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 19, 8:31 AM
    • #7
    • 24th Sep 19, 8:31 AM
    I see from the other thread that the purchase was only a year ago so CGT should not be an issue if you unwind the joint ownership. Having said that there was a previous jointly owned property that was sold last year so he may already have CGT to pay on any profit over his annual allowance on that sale.

    Professional advice is required.
  • archived user
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 19, 11:44 AM
    • #8
    • 24th Sep 19, 11:44 AM
    Lumbering him with an unnecessary tax bill is messing it up in my book, and there will be another one to come along after the OPs death as they are likely to be hit with CGT liability when the house is sold.

    Taking him off the ownership will save the second home stamp duty bill, but could lumber him with a CGT liability as he will be disposing of his share of a house that is not his residence. Even though no money is changing hands for tax purposes it is treated is a disposal at full market valuation.
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling

    He's an adult, he wasn't "lumbered with", he chose the option, whether he knew it was a sensible thing to do or not. No point at all in the OP feeling wholly responsible when it was a mutual decision, she's obviously distressed enough! I assume perhaps it was done at the time to avoid the house possibly being sold to pay for later care, if the OP was ill. In that case the son would have lost much more than a CGT or stamp duty?

    But yes, legal advice should be sought, always, in matters like this.
    • Ownerofawreck
    • By Ownerofawreck 25th Sep 19, 9:57 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Ownerofawreck
    • #9
    • 25th Sep 19, 9:57 PM
    • #9
    • 25th Sep 19, 9:57 PM
    Thank you all for your replies.
    When I purchased the previous house I simply added my son as joint tenant to make life easier when I die as have survived 2 minor strokes, and also the only thing of value is my house. I spoke to a Solicitor at the time who didn't mention cgt etc but simply warned me of what could happen should my son take advantage. I hadn't thought of care home fees at all. My son didn't really have any input, I just feel bad now as I messed up and have possibly made things difficult for him, as he has his student loan to pay back any extra help would have been handy.
    Oh well, shall not have any more good ideas haha
  • archived user
    Don't beat yourself up too much, sometimes good ideas just turn out not to be so good after all. If we were all born knowing how not to make any mistakes with finances/housing/relationships etc this board wouldn't be here!
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 25th Sep 19, 10:54 PM
    • 7,122 Posts
    • 8,355 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    Thank you all for your replies.
    When I purchased the previous house I simply added my son as joint tenant to make life easier when I die as have survived 2 minor strokes, and also the only thing of value is my house. I spoke to a Solicitor at the time who didn't mention cgt etc but simply warned me of what could happen should my son take advantage. I hadn't thought of care home fees at all. My son didn't really have any input, I just feel bad now as I messed up and have possibly made things difficult for him, as he has his student loan to pay back any extra help would have been handy.
    Oh well, shall not have any more good ideas haha
    Originally posted by Ownerofawreck
    How big a gain did you make on the previous property? You son may already have a CGT liability that he is blissfully unaware of.
    • Ownerofawreck
    • By Ownerofawreck 26th Sep 19, 12:06 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Ownerofawreck
    I sold it for 170,000 more than I paid, had I not had problems with neighbour/ being signed off sick following an argument with a door I would probably still be living there. It just seemed easier, I die he fills out a form to remove my name. I will actually go back to the first solicitor as they also handled the sale and made no mention of any tax liabilities. I haven't told my son about cgt as I'd rather find out as much as possible first.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 26th Sep 19, 8:53 AM
    • 7,122 Posts
    • 8,355 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    I sold it for 170,000 more than I paid, had I not had problems with neighbour/ being signed off sick following an argument with a door I would probably still be living there. It just seemed easier, I die he fills out a form to remove my name. I will actually go back to the first solicitor as they also handled the sale and made no mention of any tax liabilities. I haven't told my son about cgt as I'd rather find out as much as possible first.
    Originally posted by Ownerofawreck
    Solicitors do not tend to have any more knowledge of tax than the average man in the street, accountants and independent financial advisors are the people to go to for tax advice.

    If that house was always in joint ownership and it was never your sonís primary residence then he owes HMRC In excess of £13,000. It will be less if he lived there for part of his ownership, or you did the transfer of ownership at some point after the initial purchase (in which case you will need a valuation at the point of transfer to work out his gain)
    • Ownerofawreck
    • By Ownerofawreck 28th Sep 19, 12:26 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Ownerofawreck
    Keep pedalling - my son was at uni for most of the time, came home until he found a job and moved out approx 1 year before it was sold. Have had a read of CGT but decided will speak to an advisor next week.
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 8th Oct 19, 4:58 PM
    • 25,239 Posts
    • 29,488 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    What makes things easier is a properly prepared simple will, both PoA registered just in case well ahead of time, an open and honest chat about what you want or don't want (care, funeral, chronic physical or mental disability, any sentimental or personal items). No surprises no shocks. Except losing one of your anchors.
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 8th Oct 19, 5:03 PM
    • 25,239 Posts
    • 29,488 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    Keep pedalling - my son was at uni for most of the time, came home until he found a job and moved out approx 1 year before it was sold. Have had a read of CGT but decided will speak to an advisor next week.
    Originally posted by Ownerofawreck
    Woah. Your son owned half a property whilst at University and claiming loans etc? Did he declare it on all his forms? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Oct 19, 8:54 PM
    • 37,659 Posts
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    getmore4less
    It is possible for there to be more legal owners than beneficial as all property Is legally held as joint legal on trust for the benefitial owners.

    Then have just one benefitial owner,.

    That meets the needs for easier administration on death without the problems of FTB SDLT.
    • Ownerofawreck
    • By Ownerofawreck 21st Oct 19, 2:08 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Ownerofawreck
    Update.
    Well, took some time but all is well with the sold house as it was for the most part his sole or main residence during his time as a student and living there until he found employment and moved out. Phew! But, need to remove him from current house and there will be a liability on that.

    Firefox: Declared on loans but mostly I paid fees etc and he worked to pay the rest (Beer). Please don't tell me I got that wrong as well
    Re: 'What makes things easier is a properly prepared simple will, both PoA registered just in case well ahead of time, an open and honest chat about what you want or don't want (care, funeral, chronic physical or mental disability, any sentimental or personal items). No surprises no shocks. Except losing one of your anchors' haha Lost some marbles already. Funnily enough I have discussed what to do when I die and planned my funeral, but yes, you are right I need to do all of those things and intend to do so very soon with the solicitor when I take the boys details off the house deed. Many thanks for your advice.
    In fact, many thanks to all those who gave good advice to me, I certainly needed it
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