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  • FIRST POST
    • Workplace Joe
    • By Workplace Joe 5th Mar 19, 2:15 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Workplace Joe
    NINOs, Overseas Workers and AE
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 19, 2:15 PM
    NINOs, Overseas Workers and AE 5th Mar 19 at 2:15 PM
    Hello all

    I've gone looking through previous threads and can't seem to find any relating to my questions. Any guidance would be very appreciated.

    I'm trying to find actual regulations in black and white to confirm a few things. All my searches seem to give me conflicting info depending on whether it's HMRC, the pension regulator or various pension provider websites I'm looking at.

    Auto enrolment. Just a normal, small scale workplace pension scheme. There are employees who have come from overseas, who live and work in the UK permanently but have admitted they have no intention of getting a national insurance number. They are paying employee contributions which I assume are getting tax relief on top. I know this may be a really stupid question but you actually do have to be a UK resident to be auto enrolled into a UK pension scheme right? And you have to have a national insurance number to have tax relief?

    And what about overseas workers who may only work in the UK for one or two weeks but work for a British based firm with a British payroll. They don't need a nino and they aren't eligible workers, right?

    Anyone know of any particular regulation or act I can find on HMRC or something to confirm either way? I know these might sound like obvious questions but I'm having no luck getting official confirmation. The web chats I've had always ends up with something like "yeah but only in some cases. For more info go to the pension regulator". I go to them and they dodge the questions as well and send me back to where I've just come from
Page 1
    • Paul_Herring
    • By Paul_Herring 5th Mar 19, 2:58 PM
    • 6,958 Posts
    • 3,627 Thanks
    Paul_Herring
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 19, 2:58 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 19, 2:58 PM
    This one's possibly the most relevant:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-employee-coming-to-work-from-abroad#international-national-insurance-issues
    Conjugating the verb 'to be":
    -o I am humble -o You are attention seeking -o She is Nadine Dorries
    • FatherAbraham
    • By FatherAbraham 10th Mar 19, 9:01 AM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 763 Thanks
    FatherAbraham
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 19, 9:01 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 19, 9:01 AM
    .Auto enrolment. Just a normal, small scale workplace pension scheme. There are employees who have come from overseas, who live and work in the UK permanently but have admitted they have no intention of getting a national insurance number. They are paying employee contributions which I assume are getting tax relief on top. I know this may be a really stupid question but you actually do have to be a UK resident to be auto enrolled into a UK pension scheme right? And you have to have a national insurance number to have tax relief?
    Originally posted by Workplace Joe
    Hold on, let's forget the advanced topic of auto-enrollment and income-tax relief for a moment, because there's a far more fundamental problem with what you've described.

    If these are employees, as you say, then the employer must already be making National-Insurance payments for them (unless they are extremely low-paid, in which case auto-enrollment isn't an issue).

    In other words, they must already have National-Insurance identifiers. How could they not?
    Thus the old Gentleman ended his Harangue. The People heard it, and approved the Doctrine, and immediately practised the Contrary, just as if it had been a common Sermon; for the Vendue opened ...
    THE WAY TO WEALTH, Benjamin Franklin, 1758 AD
    • Paul_Herring
    • By Paul_Herring 11th Mar 19, 9:00 AM
    • 6,958 Posts
    • 3,627 Thanks
    Paul_Herring
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 19, 9:00 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 19, 9:00 AM
    In other words, they must already have National-Insurance identifiers. How could they not?
    Because they don't necessarily need them.

    From the link I posted:

    If your employee has a certificate of coverage confirming their home country social security cover continues, leave the National Insurance letters and values fields blank for that employee.
    Doesn't necessarily mean they're not getting NI deducted, just that said deductions are happening against a different identifier than an NI number.
    Conjugating the verb 'to be":
    -o I am humble -o You are attention seeking -o She is Nadine Dorries
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