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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 6th Oct 06, 7:00 PM
    • 1,874Posts
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    MSE Archna
    Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 06, 7:00 PM
    Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area 6th Oct 06 at 7:00 PM
    This thread is here to discuss the content of the article on Council Tax Cashback: reduce your band and save 1000s.

    However if you have already followed the system, please use report them in the Council tax rebanding successes discussion.

    Note from Martin: Thank you to all the contributers to the initial thread, which provided the genisis for the article. Much appreciated.


    Last edited by MSE Archna; 10-06-2010 at 4:39 PM.
    Report inappropriate posts: forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com




Page 267
    • blindman
    • By blindman 30th Aug 19, 7:13 PM
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    • 4,227 Thanks
    blindman
    Sales evidence was supplied to the VOA by the Stamps Office and later Land Registry on the understanding it was to be treated as confidential. When CT came into effect, Parliament had to give VOA permission to quote sales evidence at or just prior to a VT hearing and at no other time.


    But I can get sales evidence for my house and others that was sold in the 1990's
    Why are the earlier years sale evidence a secret?


    VOA measure houses and bungalows to Gross External Area, so that is how you need to measure the house(s)
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    Stupid Q:


    Gross external area is the area of the whole plot ie. the area inside the boundaries for the house?


    Thanks
    Last edited by blindman; 30-08-2019 at 7:16 PM.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 31st Aug 19, 2:17 PM
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    lincroft1710
    It only in recent years that the Land Registry has allowed house prices into the public domain and the earliest date is 1994. I do not know why the confidentiality still exists other than what I previously posted.

    Gross external is the area of the actual house measured round the external walls and all floors added together. Any area with headroom less than 1.50 m is ignored as are integral garages and conservatories which are of inferior construction to the rest of the house.
    Last edited by lincroft1710; 31-08-2019 at 2:25 PM.
    • blindman
    • By blindman 31st Aug 19, 2:48 PM
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    blindman
    It only in recent years that the Land Registry has allowed house prices into the public domain and the earliest date is 1994. I do not know why the confidentiality still exists other than what I previously posted.

    Gross external is the area of the actual house measured round the external walls and all floors added together. Any area with headroom less than 1.50 m is ignored as are integral garages and conservatories which are of inferior construction to the rest of the house.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    So basically with my house as the top floor area mirrors the bottom it will be 2 x the external house area?

    So for this example

    I'm looking at 67 Sqm ?
    • blindman
    • By blindman 31st Aug 19, 2:52 PM
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    • 4,227 Thanks
    blindman
    As I said in my first post in this topic I did challenge the council within 6 months of moving in.

    Would it be worth going back to them with this new evidence and saying they got it wrong?

    It was 1996 and about Sept\October.

    I had a physical meeting with someome from the council who basically said No, without providing evidence.

    Thanks

    ETA

    The house in question was rebanded from An "E" to a "D" in 1993

    Would a FOIA query be able to tell me on what grounds?
    Last edited by blindman; 31-08-2019 at 3:17 PM.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 31st Aug 19, 7:59 PM
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    lincroft1710
    So basically with my house as the top floor area mirrors the bottom it will be 2 x the external house area?

    So for this example

    I'm looking at 67 Sqm ?
    Originally posted by blindman
    I think that figure they quote is gross internal rather than gross external. You are correct on twice external area
    Last edited by lincroft1710; 31-08-2019 at 8:20 PM.
    • blindman
    • By blindman 31st Aug 19, 8:09 PM
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    blindman
    I think that figure they quote is gross internal rather than gross external
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    Looks that way but I have just seen that the house I am comparing with has external measurements.


    BTW


    Any thoughts on this


    ETA

    The house in question was rebanded from An "E" to a "D" in 1993

    Would a FOIA query to the council be able to tell me on what grounds?
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 31st Aug 19, 8:18 PM
    • 12,301 Posts
    • 10,887 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    As I said in my first post in this topic I did challenge the council within 6 months of moving in.

    Would it be worth going back to them with this new evidence and saying they got it wrong?

    It was 1996 and about Sept\October.

    I had a physical meeting with someome from the council who basically said No, without providing evidence.

    Thanks

    ETA

    The house in question was rebanded from An "E" to a "D" in 1993

    Would a FOIA query be able to tell me on what grounds?
    Originally posted by blindman
    If you had made a valid proposal back in 1996, you had the right to go to a Valuation Tribunal. You have already submitted your evidence so no point resubmitting.

    I do not know if an FOI request applies here (FOI was in its infancy during my time at VOA) and there were exemptions. Even if you could submit FOI request, the reason for reduction may never have been recorded or could be so suitably vague as to be useless.
    • blindman
    • By blindman 31st Aug 19, 10:16 PM
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    blindman
    If you had made a valid proposal back in 1996, you had the right to go to a Valuation Tribunal. You have already submitted your evidence so no point resubmitting.


    I rang the council, some bloke came round and said NO-Hardly a valid proposal.
    I had no evidence to produce apart from the price I paid for the house.



    I do not know if an FOI request applies here (FOI was in its infancy during my time at VOA) and there were exemptions. Even if you could submit FOI request, the reason for reduction may never have been recorded or could be so suitably vague as to be useless.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    Is that how it works in VOA


    Thanks for all your help and advice, I will soldier on and see if I can get to the truth
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 1st Sep 19, 2:30 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Is that how it works in VOA
    Originally posted by blindman
    Those were the bad (not quite so) old days. Around the year 2000, procedures were tightened up, so that reasons should be given for reductions. Also some caseworkers were less conscientious than others.
    • blindman
    • By blindman 1st Sep 19, 3:28 PM
    • 5,237 Posts
    • 4,227 Thanks
    blindman
    Those were the bad (not quite so) old days. Around the year 2000, procedures were tightened up, so that reasons should be given for reductions. Also some caseworkers were less conscientious than others.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    And that's my issue here.


    The sloppy refusal letter gives me no confidence he has done a good job.


    Escpecially as I have documented proof of the house value at August 1991 and the other house is a D and is exactly the same size.
    • Oh Daesu
    • By Oh Daesu 8th Sep 19, 4:50 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Oh Daesu
    New Build Homes/Estate
    Hi Guy's,

    I start the Re-banding process this week, But wanted anyones advice on new build properties as virtually all properties on the estate are banded the same to note the exception of a few that are D.

    The estate has been open for a few years now and we move in sixteen months back.

    I'm of the thinking we should be band D not E.
    • Happy Traveler
    • By Happy Traveler 18th Sep 19, 10:20 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Happy Traveler
    I appealed and was told that my semi detached house is in the correct band and the decision is final. This is very unfair as my house which was extended pre 1991 had a higher council tax band than my neighbour who extensively extended in 1993 and also higher than a detached house locally which has been extended on three sides in 1995. In fact I find myself as the highest council tax band in the neighbourhood. We are talking of between 300 - 500 per year and rising, which is falling as I am a pensioner. HELP. MARTIN IS THERE NOTHING I CAN DO?
    • CIS
    • By CIS 18th Sep 19, 5:02 PM
    • 11,388 Posts
    • 6,659 Thanks
    CIS
    This is very unfair as my house which was extended pre 1991 had a higher council tax band than my neighbour who extensively extended in 1993 and also higher than a detached house locally which has been extended on three sides in 1995.
    The way the law works is that the extensions made after a valuation list has been compiled are not taken in to account for council tax until the property is sold/transferred to a new owner. Without a change in the law this situation will not change.

    With the length of time you have had the property it could only be by way of a request for then to review the band, there would be no formal appeal as it would be out of time.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Mags28
    • By Mags28 19th Sep 19, 4:20 AM
    • 1 Posts
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    Mags28
    I was involved in Martin's TV programme when he first talked about Council Tax. I had documentary proof that my house was in the wrong band. My house was built in 1991 and there are houses in my road that are exactly the same in a lower tax band. My claim was rejected and I was told that I had no right of appeal. Is there anything else that I can do?
    • CIS
    • By CIS 19th Sep 19, 4:38 PM
    • 11,388 Posts
    • 6,659 Thanks
    CIS
    I was involved in Martin's TV programme when he first talked about Council Tax. I had documentary proof that my house was in the wrong band. My house was built in 1991 and there are houses in my road that are exactly the same in a lower tax band. My claim was rejected and I was told that I had no right of appeal. Is there anything else that I can do?
    Originally posted by Mags28

    Not once you are outside of the 6 month period.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • maisie30
    • By maisie30 21st Sep 19, 9:26 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    maisie30
    I've recently discovered I may be in the wrong band and that I can challenge this. The issue is that my property was built in 2010, it was a new estate and has grown since then so most properties nearby are also new builds. The block I live in has 1 and 2 bed flats and we've all be banded the same despite price differences. I've done a valuation check on the Nationwide calculator as well as using another valuation calculator and it falls below the threshold for the lower band in 1991. The problem is I can't argue about similar properties as I believe all the 1 bed flats in the block should be reduced, the 2 bed flats appear to be in the correct band. I'm going to call the valuation office to discuss but any advice would be helpful. Thank you
    • EmmaGill
    • By EmmaGill 15th Oct 19, 5:50 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    EmmaGill
    Getting nowhere fast!
    I have been ringing up the local VOA office on a weekly basis, giving them details of houses that are in a lower council tax banding to mine. I live in a double fronted 1930s detached house. The houses I offer as examples are similar in age, style, size etc etc. Each time I have been given a different reason for why the houses are not a good comparison to my own. Firstly, the bands were higher than mine, and should have been lower. Then the houses were smaller than mine - apparently the number of bedrooms is not comparable (mine is 3 bed, and some similar 5 bed houses are in a lower banding). Then I was told the number of bathroom is not comparable (mine is 1 bath, many are 2). Finally, I have been told that I need to find properties that are the same square footage as mine! After doing my research I have discovered that unless the houses have been own Rightmove or suchlike this is almost impossible (unless I go round with a measuring tape!) Furthermore, my house has remained the same since it was built in 1946. Many other houses built in this era have changed; been extended or turned into semi detached etc.
    They are making it very hard for me. Can anyone help me with some advice?
    Thank you, Emma x
    • EmmaGill
    • By EmmaGill 15th Oct 19, 5:52 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    EmmaGill
    I've recently discovered I may be in the wrong band and that I can challenge this. The issue is that my property was built in 2010, it was a new estate and has grown since then so most properties nearby are also new builds. The block I live in has 1 and 2 bed flats and we've all be banded the same despite price differences. I've done a valuation check on the Nationwide calculator as well as using another valuation calculator and it falls below the threshold for the lower band in 1991. The problem is I can't argue about similar properties as I believe all the 1 bed flats in the block should be reduced, the 2 bed flats appear to be in the correct band. I'm going to call the valuation office to discuss but any advice would be helpful. Thank you
    Originally posted by maisie30
    I wonder if the size of the flats are the same despite being 1 or 2 beds? I'd maybe check this first
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