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  • FIRST POST
    • beetlebobby
    • By beetlebobby 21st Oct 19, 11:03 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    beetlebobby
    decisions, decisions, decisions,,,,
    • #1
    • 21st Oct 19, 11:03 PM
    decisions, decisions, decisions,,,, 21st Oct 19 at 11:03 PM
    Hi all would it be possible for a little bit of knowledge from some of you more experienced lads or lassies regarding my pension dilemma,,,Premier Foods have offered me an enhanced transfer offer of another 25% on top of my standard transfer value if i leave the pension scheme as they would like to reduce the amount of members within the scheme,,,in this case about another £100,000 which seems a great deal of money to miss out on.. question being what to do with the fund ? i fancy like a lot of you going down the drawdown route but wouldn't have a clue where to start ,,, they are offering a Financial adviser (origen) to assist paid by prem foods but how do i know they are offering good advice or not,,,
    I could just stay in current scheme not get the enhanced offer or gamble to see if i can invest monies and drawdown but who and where to invest is a mine field to me,,so any help would be great,,
Page 1
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 22nd Oct 19, 8:10 AM
    • 4,611 Posts
    • 2,891 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    • #2
    • 22nd Oct 19, 8:10 AM
    • #2
    • 22nd Oct 19, 8:10 AM
    We'll need some more information, like what is your pension, what guaranteed increases are there, is there a spouse pension?
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • tacpot12
    • By tacpot12 22nd Oct 19, 8:20 AM
    • 2,938 Posts
    • 2,660 Thanks
    tacpot12
    • #3
    • 22nd Oct 19, 8:20 AM
    • #3
    • 22nd Oct 19, 8:20 AM
    You could easily loose the £100,000 in fees when you pay for someone else to manage your pension. So you have all of the risk and little upside.

    Proceed very carefully.

    I don't think you can expect Origen to have your interests at heart - you are not the one paying for their advice. You need to pay an IFA for advice on the basis that whatever their advice is, you will have nothing further to do with them once they have advised you. The moment you hold out the prospect of further business, they cease to be impartial.
    The comments I post are my personal opinion. While I try to check everything is correct before posting, I can and do make mistakes, so always check official information sources before relying on my posts.
    • Spreadsheetman
    • By Spreadsheetman 22nd Oct 19, 8:43 AM
    • 304 Posts
    • 369 Thanks
    Spreadsheetman
    • #4
    • 22nd Oct 19, 8:43 AM
    • #4
    • 22nd Oct 19, 8:43 AM
    Remember that they are trying to bribe you to leave the scheme - proving that they anticipate doing much better out of it than you will. Tread very carefully indeed.
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 22nd Oct 19, 10:02 AM
    • 1,337 Posts
    • 1,055 Thanks
    Marcon
    • #5
    • 22nd Oct 19, 10:02 AM
    • #5
    • 22nd Oct 19, 10:02 AM
    I don't think you can expect Origen to have your interests at heart - you are not the one paying for their advice.
    Originally posted by tacpot12
    That's nonsense. The Pensions Regulator requires an employer to provide members with access to impartial financial advice (which the employer must pay for) where the employer is carrying out an enhanced transfer exercise.

    OP, start by taking up the free advice offered. You don't have to follow it and it could be very educational! No adviser will compromise themselves by giving advice biased towards the employer just because the employer is paying.
    Last edited by Marcon; 22-10-2019 at 2:05 PM.
    • MK62
    • By MK62 22nd Oct 19, 11:24 AM
    • 510 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    MK62
    • #6
    • 22nd Oct 19, 11:24 AM
    • #6
    • 22nd Oct 19, 11:24 AM
    Other than seeing the adviser (which is free and non-commital), nobody here can really offer much of an opinion as we don't know what your pension will pay out, at what age it will pay it, and what other benefits it might have. Consequently we also have no idea if an extra £100k on the enhanced CETV is really worthwhile (ie if your standard CETV is low, relative to the pension you would be giving up, the enhanced CETV, while better, might still be low in the grand scheme)
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 22nd Oct 19, 11:35 AM
    • 6,933 Posts
    • 11,204 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #7
    • 22nd Oct 19, 11:35 AM
    • #7
    • 22nd Oct 19, 11:35 AM
    Remember that they are trying to bribe you to leave the scheme - proving that they anticipate doing much better out of it than you will. Tread very carefully indeed.
    Originally posted by Spreadsheetman
    This is correct but it is possible for both them to do better and you to do better as well.

    Take the free advice, then see a local IFA.

    in this case about another £100,000 which seems a great deal of money to miss out on.
    by beetlebobby
    If you don't transfer you aren't missing out on anything. Your guaranteed pension for life is worth whatever amount £X Premier Foods are offering you to leave right now. If you turn down the offer then you still have a guaranteed pension for life worth £X.

    If your guaranteed pension for life wasn't worth what they were offering you right now, they wouldn't offer it.
    • beetlebobby
    • By beetlebobby 22nd Oct 19, 10:28 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    beetlebobby
    • #8
    • 22nd Oct 19, 10:28 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Oct 19, 10:28 PM
    Thanks for everyone's input ive had a look at some of my past pension documents and its a DB pension
    which when i retire i could buy an annuity with varying possibilities like fixed amount, indexed linked ,smokers etc etc this has been deferred since 2002.ive not really paid much attention untill now where i have received this enhanced offer to jump ship and £102000 extra cash which is another 25% on top of my pension seems too good to be true...i also have a ipp from royal London which will only be worth about £60000 at retirement age been 67 in my case,,,plus a new company pension from Friends life which will be worth a cup of coffee if im lucky,,, i will wait and see what these Origen people say and report back the findings.
    many thanks
    • robber2
    • By robber2 23rd Oct 19, 12:23 AM
    • 440 Posts
    • 384 Thanks
    robber2
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 19, 12:23 AM
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 19, 12:23 AM
    Absolutely no need to buy an annuity when yoiu retire. You have had many other options for several years now. The advisors who have been offerred to you should clearly explain the choices open to you.


    Regards


    Rob
    • Dox
    • By Dox 23rd Oct 19, 8:24 AM
    • 1,664 Posts
    • 1,259 Thanks
    Dox
    This is correct but it is possible for both them to do better and you to do better as well.

    Take the free advice, then see a local IFA.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Do remember that the transfer value you've been offered is only guaranteed for 3 months, so you need to crack on quickly if you want to investigate.

    Best of luck finding a local IFA with the necessary permissions to advise on DB transfers - and the TV will have expired by then.
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 23rd Oct 19, 8:27 AM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,757 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    I have been through the process of receiving an enhanced CETV to transfer-out. Don't be dazzled by the big numbers. It costs plenty to provide the kind of benefits offered by a DB scheme.

    With hindsight the IFA's advice (paid for by the sponsoring company) was sound. Don't let temptation cloud your judgement. Listen to what s/he says about risk and benefits.

    It's likely that you will be advised not to transfer. That's the best advice for most peoples' circumstances. If that's the outcome for you then follow it.

    Btw, I was one of the exceptional cases who received a recommendation to transfer. Initially I was doubtful but I have reduced life expectancy, a spouse who is well-pensioned, other assets, no dependents, the DB pension was only partly-indexed in payment, I was already a DIY-investor, I was willing and able to take-on the risk, etc. etc. The combination signalled that I should transfer.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 23rd Oct 19, 10:38 AM
    • 10,833 Posts
    • 8,115 Thanks
    GunJack
    Thanks for everyone's input ive had a look at some of my past pension documents and its a DB pension
    which when i retire i could buy an annuity with varying possibilities like fixed amount, indexed linked ,smokers etc etc this has been deferred since 2002.
    Originally posted by beetlebobby
    That doesn't stack up....if it's a DB pension it should be paying you a proportion of final salary or career average per year, not giving you a "pot" to decide what to do with..

    I think you need to clarify first what exactly this pension is and what it's due to pay you.
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 23rd Oct 19, 11:41 AM
    • 7,191 Posts
    • 7,938 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    OP, start by taking up the free advice offered. You don't have to follow it and it could be very educational! No adviser will compromise themselves by giving advice biased towards the employer just because the employer is paying.
    Originally posted by Marcon

    I'd second this - I went through a similar experience a couple of years ago and although in the end I declined the offer to transfer (even though the Origen adviser said that my financial situation was such that it would be ok to do so) I found that going through the review process was a useful exercise.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 23rd Oct 19, 12:31 PM
    • 31,595 Posts
    • 19,592 Thanks
    xylophone
    Thanks for everyone's input ive had a look at some of my past pension documents and its a DB pension
    which when i retire i could buy an annuity with varying possibilities like fixed amount, indexed linked ,smokers etc etc this has been deferred since 2002.
    Are you sure that this is a DB pension?
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 23rd Oct 19, 12:50 PM
    • 10,833 Posts
    • 8,115 Thanks
    GunJack
    Are you sure that this is a DB pension?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Hence my point in post #12
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 23rd Oct 19, 2:38 PM
    • 65,308 Posts
    • 57,494 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Are you sure that this is a DB pension?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    If there's an enhanced transfer value then must be. Perhaps the OP is assuming that there's a pot of money to be accessed on retirement. That can be used as wished.
    ““there really is no such thing as ‘the future’, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.””
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 23rd Oct 19, 2:40 PM
    • 65,308 Posts
    • 57,494 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    I have been through the process of receiving an enhanced CETV to transfer-out. Don't be dazzled by the big numbers. It costs plenty to provide the kind of benefits offered by a DB scheme.

    With hindsight the IFA's advice (paid for by the sponsoring company) was sound. Don't let temptation cloud your judgement. Listen to what s/he says about risk and benefits.

    It's likely that you will be advised not to transfer. That's the best advice for most peoples' circumstances. If that's the outcome for you then follow it.

    Btw, I was one of the exceptional cases who received a recommendation to transfer. Initially I was doubtful but I have reduced life expectancy, a spouse who is well-pensioned, other assets, no dependents, the DB pension was only partly-indexed in payment, I was already a DIY-investor, I was willing and able to take-on the risk, etc. etc. The combination signalled that I should transfer.
    Originally posted by DairyQueen
    How long ago was this? Been a significant change in the past 2 months following the FCA's review. That is still ongoing at an adviser level.
    ““there really is no such thing as ‘the future’, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.””
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 23rd Oct 19, 5:11 PM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,757 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    How long ago was this? Been a significant change in the past 2 months following the FCA's review. That is still ongoing at an adviser level.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    2017. I have read that the FCA review has had an impact but don't know details of the current positive transfer triggers. Presumably, different criteria than previously.

    I am comfortable that I received the right advice. OH didn't need the spouse's benefit. Flexible drawdown is much better for our income tax position and I am now able to leave something to my beneficiaries tax-efficiently (I have no children) regardless of when I die. Life expectancy of less than 80 and a x32 offer at age 58 suited me. Add in very limited indexation once the pension was in payment and for me it was the best decision. I sincerely hope that those few who, like me, could genuinely benefit are still able to transfer.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 23rd Oct 19, 5:50 PM
    • 65,308 Posts
    • 57,494 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    2017. I have read that the FCA review has had an impact but don't know details of the current positive transfer triggers. Presumably, different criteria than previously.
    Originally posted by DairyQueen
    Some sizable active players have recently withdrawn from the marketplace following visits from the FCA. The latest update in June, said.

    The FCA has repeatedly made clear its expectations of financial advisers as well as strengthening the rules around pension transfer advice. Despite this, too much advice the FCA has seen to date is still not of an acceptable standard.

    The FCA is concerned that firms are recommending that large numbers of consumers transfer out of their defined benefit pension schemes despite the FCA’s stance that transfers are likely to be unsuitable for most clients.
    The FCA will also be writing to all firms where the potential for harm has been identified in the data the firm has supplied. This will set out the FCA's expectations and the actions firms should take.
    ““there really is no such thing as ‘the future’, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.””
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 23rd Oct 19, 8:18 PM
    • 31,595 Posts
    • 19,592 Thanks
    xylophone
    I too would have thought DB but I cannot understand why the
    past pension documents
    to which the OP refers seem to offer DC type options - I suppose there might be some sort of AVC running alongside a DB pension?
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