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  • FIRST POST
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 9th Oct 19, 7:21 PM
    • 38Posts
    • 0Thanks
    mickd27
    Contract ended - not getting paid
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 19, 7:21 PM
    Contract ended - not getting paid 9th Oct 19 at 7:21 PM
    Hi,

    I was contracting through my limited company with a recruitment agency for over 2 years. The contract has now ended but they still owe my limited company 8 weeks wages totalling £8,000. The agency say they won't pay me until they receive the money from the company I was working for.

    I read the contract and it says they won't pay me until they receive the money from the company I was working for.

    The company are in a bad way so I'm worried that if I don't do anything about it I will never get the money I have worked for.

    So now I am sitting here waiting for the money to be paid in. Is there anything else I can do or am I totally screwed? Could I threaten court action on the company to pay me the money? The time sheets were signed off so there is proof that I worked those hours. At the moment they probably have cash flow problems which is why they havenít paid me. Would I be better waiting and seeing if things improve for the company before taking legal action?
Page 1
    • Rappa
    • By Rappa 9th Oct 19, 8:19 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Rappa
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:19 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:19 PM
    Hi,

    I was contracting through my limited company with a recruitment agency for over 2 years. The contract has now ended but they still owe my limited company 8 weeks wages totalling £8,000. The agency say they won't pay me until they receive the money from the company I was working for.

    I read the contract and it says they won't pay me until they receive the money from the company I was working for.

    The company are in a bad way so I'm worried that if I don't do anything about it I will never get the money I have worked for.

    So now I am sitting here waiting for the money to be paid in. Is there anything else I can do or am I totally screwed? Could I threaten court action on the company to pay me the money? The time sheets were signed off so there is proof that I worked those hours. At the moment they probably have cash flow problems which is why they havenít paid me. Would I be better waiting and seeing if things improve for the company before taking legal action?
    Originally posted by mickd27
    Yes you can threaten court action.

    On what basis are would you consider threatening such action? Breach of contract? Have they breached it?
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 9th Oct 19, 8:50 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:50 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:50 PM
    Yes you can threaten court action.

    On what basis are would you consider threatening such action? Breach of contract? Have they breached it?
    Originally posted by Rappa
    The contract is written by the recruitment agency who say in the contract if they don't receive any money from the company then they won't pay me. I've worked over 260 hours and received no money for it. Rather than taking the agency to court I'm thinking of going direct to the company itself.

    They have signed off the hours so surely these should be paid for if they have the funds.
    • Mistral001
    • By Mistral001 10th Oct 19, 10:45 AM
    • 4,006 Posts
    • 3,064 Thanks
    Mistral001
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 19, 10:45 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Oct 19, 10:45 AM
    I could be just a cash flow problem. You are not an employee of this company but a supplier. Some companies have a pecking order with regards to when they pay suppliers so you might have been put down the pecking order now that you are no longer supplying.

    I see no problem with contacting the company to see what is causing the delay. I would make sure you speak to the person who commissioned you and not let them fob you off with the accounts department.
    Last edited by Mistral001; 10-10-2019 at 10:48 AM.
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 10th Oct 19, 2:21 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 19, 2:21 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Oct 19, 2:21 PM
    I could be just a cash flow problem. You are not an employee of this company but a supplier. Some companies have a pecking order with regards to when they pay suppliers so you might have been put down the pecking order now that you are no longer supplying.

    I see no problem with contacting the company to see what is causing the delay. I would make sure you speak to the person who commissioned you and not let them fob you off with the accounts department.
    Originally posted by Mistral001
    Okay yeah thanks for this.
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 11th Oct 19, 5:08 PM
    • 3,821 Posts
    • 7,345 Thanks
    trailingspouse
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 19, 5:08 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 19, 5:08 PM
    You don't have a contract with the end client, your contract is with the recruitment agency. The recruitment agency have the contract with the end client. So therefore you can't take the end client to court for breach of contract, as you don't have a contract with them.


    How long is it since the contract ended? What are your normal payment terms, and have they expired yet?
    So, for example, if you would expect to get paid at the end of October for the work you did in September, the payment period isn't up yet.



    What's your relationship with the recruitment company? I would be ringing whoever you normally talk to, and having a calm and professional discussion with them, to see what's going on.



    If things do go pear-shaped, the recruitment company will have to line up with all the other creditors and may or may not receive the money owed to them.
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 11th Oct 19, 6:37 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 19, 6:37 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 19, 6:37 PM
    You don't have a contract with the end client, your contract is with the recruitment agency. The recruitment agency have the contract with the end client. So therefore you can't take the end client to court for breach of contract, as you don't have a contract with them.


    How long is it since the contract ended? What are your normal payment terms, and have they expired yet?
    So, for example, if you would expect to get paid at the end of October for the work you did in September, the payment period isn't up yet.



    What's your relationship with the recruitment company? I would be ringing whoever you normally talk to, and having a calm and professional discussion with them, to see what's going on.



    If things do go pear-shaped, the recruitment company will have to line up with all the other creditors and may or may not receive the money owed to them.
    Originally posted by trailingspouse


    I have spoken to my recruitment agent, he said he would look into it for me but never got back to me. I then emailed the payroll department of the agency and their exact words were we don’t know when the money will be received but once the money comes in you will be contacted. So it looks like I am now playing a waiting game just didn’t know if this is the right thing to do or should I be doing more to get the money.

    As you say the contract is with the agency so it looks like there is nothing I can do apart from just wait and see if they pay up.

    Normal paying terms is weekly but they are delayed by 4 weeks from when you work those specific hours. At the moment I should have received all pay up to a month ago. My contract ended 20th of September so I should be only waiting for 1 or 2 more pays and not 8.
    Last edited by mickd27; 11-10-2019 at 6:41 PM.
    • Sandtree
    • By Sandtree 11th Oct 19, 8:01 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Sandtree
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 19, 8:01 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 19, 8:01 PM
    This is one of the risks of contracting and in part why hourly/daily rates are higher.

    Your contract is with the agency and so you need to double check what the terms are you signed. At the end of the day if it’s paid is paid then it may be a bit of a wait and may not get anywhere. Need to remember this is a B2B relationship without the protection of being an employee so may be a painful lesson on contract negotiations and client selection.
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 11th Oct 19, 8:36 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 19, 8:36 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Oct 19, 8:36 PM
    This is one of the risks of contracting and in part why hourly/daily rates are higher.

    Your contract is with the agency and so you need to double check what the terms are you signed. At the end of the day if itís paid is paid then it may be a bit of a wait and may not get anywhere. Need to remember this is a B2B relationship without the protection of being an employee so may be a painful lesson on contract negotiations and client selection.
    Originally posted by Sandtree
    The terms arenít really in my favour other than once they receive the money from the end client then they will pay me. It says if the company goes into liquidation then the agency has no obligation to pay me. Looks like I'm screwed to be honest.
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 12th Oct 19, 9:19 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    What if the company doesn't go bust and win a project or 2 next year sometime.

    It is likely they could pay the agency then?
    Last edited by mickd27; 12-10-2019 at 9:22 AM.
    • phill99
    • By phill99 12th Oct 19, 12:29 PM
    • 8,724 Posts
    • 7,971 Thanks
    phill99
    Effectively your contract is illegal under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.


    The people you contract to can't use a contract term that states you get paid only when they get paid.


    Your contract is with them, not their client.


    You now need to send a letter to them stating that unless they pay you within 14 days, action will be started against them. Just ignore the contract term about them not being paid as the court will simply ignore it as it is illegal.
    Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.
    • martindow
    • By martindow 12th Oct 19, 1:24 PM
    • 8,330 Posts
    • 4,873 Thanks
    martindow
    Effectively your contract is illegal under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.


    The people you contract to can't use a contract term that states you get paid only when they get paid.


    Your contract is with them, not their client.


    You now need to send a letter to them stating that unless they pay you within 14 days, action will be started against them. Just ignore the contract term about them not being paid as the court will simply ignore it as it is illegal.
    Originally posted by phill99
    I'm not sure the OP can rely on this act for a B2B contract and the court would be more likely to look closely at the terms of the contract that was signed to come to a decision. Individual consumers have a lot more protection than businesses.
    • cedrag
    • By cedrag 12th Oct 19, 2:02 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    cedrag
    I'm not sure the OP can rely on this act for a B2B contract ...
    Originally posted by martindow
    Why not?

    In fact, most terms that were originally included within that Act insofar as they only referred to consumers have now been omitted, as they are now included within the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
    • cedrag
    • By cedrag 12th Oct 19, 2:13 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    cedrag
    ...
    Normal paying terms is weekly but they are delayed by 4 weeks from when you work those specific hours. At the moment I should have received all pay up to a month ago. My contract ended 20th of September so I should be only waiting for 1 or 2 more pays and not 8.
    Originally posted by mickd27
    If those were the agreed terms, then it would appear your customer is in breach of contract.

    One question that you may be posed by a court if you take matters there is why you continued to supply your services to the agency, not just in week 5 (of the 8 week period we are concerned with here), but week 6, week 7 and indeed week 8, when the customer was already seen to not be complying with those terms, particularly in regards to paying you.
    Last edited by cedrag; 12-10-2019 at 2:17 PM.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 13th Oct 19, 12:46 PM
    • 2,760 Posts
    • 4,400 Thanks
    badmemory
    Do you have proof that the company hasn't paid the agency? There is more than one company here that may be in financial trouble!
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 13th Oct 19, 5:20 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    Yeah I’ve got timesheets stating the hours have been approved but the recruitment agency is waiting for payment.

    So basically I got a months notice and in that meeting the boss said that all payments would be sorted out by the time I left. I also went on a couple of holidays around that time so guess my mind was on those. I’m sure I’ve got emails of me chasing up payments aswell.

    So one month later from the notice there was 8 payments due and it’s my last day.
    • mickd27
    • By mickd27 13th Oct 19, 8:11 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mickd27
    I found this online...

    UCTA will only apply, however, where the parties are entering into the contract on written standard terms of business (section 3(1)). So, UCTA will not apply to negotiated contracts.

    Well I did negotiate the rate, that was all.
    Last edited by mickd27; 13-10-2019 at 8:25 PM.
    • cedrag
    • By cedrag 14th Oct 19, 4:39 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    cedrag
    I found this online...

    UCTA will only apply, however, where the parties are entering into the contract on written standard terms of business (section 3(1)). So, UCTA will not apply to negotiated contracts.

    Well I did negotiate the rate, that was all.
    Originally posted by mickd27
    3.1 of the act refers to that section only, namely section 3, so in essence, 3.2, not the entire act
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