New heating system

ian103 · 27 June 2018 at 8:26AM

We are in the processing of upgrading our heating system.We do not have access to mains gas. We currently use storage heaters which struggled in the bad weather this year (in fairness they are barely adequate in a mild winter).

We are in the process of getting a quote for air to air, air to water and oil fired heating. The investment will be significant so we need to ensure we make the right decisions in all respects.

Are there any other systems worth looking at?

Is there any advice LOT20 electric heating?, it looks like this could be expensive to run?

Are there any general pitfalls with the systems, each is being designed with how we use the property.

Cardew · 27 June 2018 at 9:12AM

ian103 wrote: »

Is there any advice LOT20 electric heating?, it looks like this could be expensive to run?

For those who haven't heard of LOT20 electric heating, this is the advertising blurb.

https://www.electricradiatorsdirect.co.uk/news/lot-20-explained-what-does-this-mean-for-electric-heating/

Well the good news is that all electrical heaters themselves are 100% efficient*. The heaters sold by the firm in the link have exactly the same efficiency as a £10 heater from Argos.

* Efficiency here is defined as the heat output for a given electrical consumption.

The thrust of the article is that 'control mechanisms' will improve 'efficiency' e.g. an electronic thermostat is better than a simple mechanical thermostat.

Careful reading of the article will show the claims of savings are modest.

ian103 · 27 June 2018 at 9:48AM

Thanks Cardew, we had looked at upgrading the current storage heaters and making sure they were corretly sized, however it appears storage heaters that run on E7 are no longer manufactured, they have been affected by LOT20 and now have a daytime element that manitors / tops up the heat. To replace the heaters would have been a straightforward change, now we will require a second electric supply installing to each heater location, this will significantly increase the costs and make other options more viable.

We got the impression that these would merely become expensive heaters as on E7 the daytime tarriff is high so there would be some benefit of the E7 charge but offset by the daytime top up.

We have no personal experience / knowledge of the new style heaters but question if they will be cost effective.

potts8 · 27 June 2018 at 11:59AM

I've recently had a plumber round to quote for upgrading our system and I was keen to compare ASHP to oil. He does install both types however he warned me off from ASHP due to my house not being suitable.
It's a 1980s build with part cavity wall insulation and 280mm loft insulation so I thought it would be ok but he strongly advised me to stay with oil.
I'd be keen to hear your experience and if you receive a similar message...

ian103 · 27 June 2018 at 2:21PM

potts8, we live in a 1960s property, cavity wall insulated and a well insulated loft but a vented uninsulated underfloor void. We are also in an exposed location and get battered by wind in the winter, hence why the storage heater option isnt very successful. I'll let you know what the ashp and oil chap says, the air to air specialists were confident the system they are recommending would work.

WhoIsThat · 27 June 2018 at 6:53PM

ian103 wrote: »

potts8, we live in a 1960s property, cavity wall insulated and a well insulated loft but a vented uninsulated underfloor void. We are also in an exposed location and get battered by wind in the winter, hence why the storage heater option isnt very successful. I'll let you know what the ashp and oil chap says, the air to air specialists were confident the system they are recommending would work.

That is not a logical concusion to reach, sorry.

If your home, in particular the floor, is uninsulated and the whole house is getting battered by wind that makes you dismiss night storage heaters, then you will have similar issues with whatever heating system you propose to install.

Treat the cause.

As you said last year, your quote and associated details for an air source pump sounded too good to be true.

ian103 · 27 June 2018 at 8:54PM

Unfortunately there isnt an economic / straightforward fix to the underfloor void or we would have gone that route.

The problem with our current storage heaters is that there is no way add additional charge and they are undersized.

Conventional storage heaters are no longer available, new storage heaters use day and night tarriff electricity and currently available E7 tarriffs are not cheap.

Storage heaters work in the correct instance unfortunately our current property isnt sutable. Prior to this house we were more than happy with storage heaters.

My comment early June 2018 that our quote and associated details for an air source pump sounded too good to be true was based 2 units heating the whole house, the company we have now had to quote recommended / specified a sized to suit unit in each room, we are also looking at other options oil. air to water heating etc.

Owain_Moneysaver · 27 June 2018 at 9:11PM

ian103 wrote: »

Thanks Cardew, we had looked at upgrading the current storage heaters and making sure they were corretly sized, however it appears storage heaters that run on E7 are no longer manufactured, they have been affected by LOT20 and now have a daytime element that manitors / tops up the heat. To replace the heaters would have been a straightforward change, now we will require a second electric supply installing to each heater location, this will significantly increase the costs and make other options more viable.

The daytime top-up elements are usually fairly low wattage and subject to doversity (unlike the night charge elements) so can be connected to ordinary socket circuits.

Non- LOT20 storage heaters are not being manufactured, but they are still available and can still be installed. A lot of storage heater installations from the 70s and 80s when 17degC was considered warm are now undersized when trying to achieve the currently popular 20-21degC.

SaraR2018 · 28 June 2018 at 6:47PM

When learning about ductless mini-split heat pumps, many clients initially are excited about the energy efficiency offered by the installation of a unit. After they have some time to think about the advantages of ductless mini-split heat pumps, they may begin to wonder just how they work. After all, there is more than one home heating solution promising efficiency !!!8212; by understanding how heat pumps work, our clients can be confident that heat pumps offer superior energy efficiency relative to other home heating solutions.

Ductless mini-split heat pumps extract heat from the outside air and bring it inside, warming the interior air. This may sound counter-intuitive at first, after all, it!!!8217;s cold outside in the winter months, when we want heat. How does the unit actually achieve this?

The refrigerant in the heat pump is what makes it possible produce this effect !!!8212; if you have a kitchen refrigerator, then you already have experience with this substance. If you!!!8217;ve noticed the coils on the back of your refrigerator, imagine those as part of an exterior heat pump unit. As the outside air moves across these coils, any existing heat energy is attracted to the coil, because heat always flows from areas of high temperatures to areas of low temperatures. In essence, the refrigerant captures the heat.

As the heat moves through the system, it warms existing liquefied gas, producing vapor. This vapor travels to the interior compressor unit, which has a fan. The fan blows the heat out into the room and, voila!, you have comfortable, enveloping interior heating. You can keep the system running continuously without worrying about sky-high energy bills, because the system works best as it stays constant.

In the summer months, the system is reversible, meaning you get a fully-functional air conditioning (AC) unit for no additional cost. Forget unsightly window units or expensive central AC.

RobertJr · 28 June 2018 at 7:19PM

Heat pumps use electricity in a seemingly magic way, to move heat from one place to another and upgrade the temperature of that heat in the process. Heat pumps seem like magic because they can extract heat from a place that!!!8217;s cold !!!8212; like Vermont!!!8217;s outdoor air in January, or underground !!!8212; and deliver it to a place that!!!8217;s a lot warmer.

Alter_ego · 28 June 2018 at 7:33PM

RobertJr wrote: »

Heat pumps use electricity in a seemingly magic way, to move heat from one place to another and upgrade the temperature of that heat in the process. Heat pumps seem like magic because they can extract heat from a place that!!!8217;s cold !!!8212; like Vermont!!!8217;s outdoor air in January, or underground !!!8212; and deliver it to a place that!!!8217;s a lot warmer.

Ah I see, I'll stick with gas CH. Thanks for the explanation, I didn't realise it is magic.

New heating system

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