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    • james72
    • By james72 8th Nov 18, 2:40 PM
    • 8Posts
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    james72
    Legal Aid question repossession question
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 18, 2:40 PM
    Legal Aid question repossession question 8th Nov 18 at 2:40 PM
    I’m facing losing my home, maybe this is the wrong forum [?]

    I have spoken to various people Debtline/CAB/Kyles Legal

    I gave all my information [Kyles Legal gave me a legal aid entitlement number] and suggest I contact local solicitors [and gave me a list]

    The closest one I contacted – at first wanted to charge me £100 for a consultation – I had already mentioned I was legal aid – I repeated this – and it was booked in for 'free'

    They then contacted me to change it from a meeting to a phone call – to check I was entitled

    I thought I would check up – and I saw this:

    You won't usually qualify if:
    • your total monthly income before tax is over £2657
    • you have savings or assets of £8000 or more
    • your home is worth more than £208,000 (or £308,000 if you're facing mortgage repossession)

    The property is worth much more than £308,000 – I did check again with Kyles and they said as long as all the information I gave them was correct – than I was entitled to legal aid. Everything I said was correct. But I fear not being able to get any help.

    Is it likely I will get refused legal aid?

    If I do get refused [as none of the CAB/debtline/etc can help me further] how do I proceed?

    It’s all pretty desperate. Any advice on how to proceed would be most gratefully received.

    And if anyone has any recommendations for the best people to see or speak to – that would be amazing.

    Thanks just for reading

    Especially if I messed up and put this in the wrong forum

    x
Page 1
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 8th Nov 18, 3:16 PM
    • 4,360 Posts
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    debt doctor
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:16 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 3:16 PM
    Hi James,

    Any legal aid available for this will be held under a contract awarded by the LSC. Shelter should be able to tell you who the provider is.

    How far has this progressed, and are you in a position to pay at least the contractual monthly payment (ignoring other debts you may have)?

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 8th Nov 18, 4:09 PM
    • 4,360 Posts
    • 6,026 Thanks
    debt doctor
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 4:09 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 4:09 PM

    It’s all pretty desperate. Any advice on how to proceed would be most gratefully received.
    Originally posted by james72
    I represent in court pretty much every week in cases of mortgage / rent possession. If you can answer the following questions I'll give you my opinion.

    Can you afford the ongoing mortgage either now or in the near future?
    How much equity in the property?
    How long has the mortgage got to run?
    Are you working / not working?
    Do you live alone or do you have family / children?
    Who is the lender?
    What stage are things at?

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • Craig1981
    • By Craig1981 9th Nov 18, 6:08 AM
    • 455 Posts
    • 217 Thanks
    Craig1981
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 6:08 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 6:08 AM
    i assume you have checked the gov.uk website where you got the figures from for qualification.

    i did a quick calculations (for my own interest) and if i were self employed, wife not working, had two children, owned a house at 400k, mortgage left of over 400k, only child benefit, i would probably not get legal aid

    i would do the full query here, and put your circumstances in,
    https://checklegalaid.service.gov.uk/legal-aid-available
    • james72
    • By james72 9th Nov 18, 9:58 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    james72
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:58 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:58 AM
    Right, sorry for the delay on getting back on to reply

    I didn’t realise I had an account on here, and once outside I had no way to log on to reply

    Thanks for the replies…

    Here goes…

    i assume you have checked the gov.uk website where you got the figures from for qualification.
    Originally posted by Craig1981
    Thanks.

    I checked through the link, and it said I would ‘probably NOT get legal aid’

    I can’t see where/how I can afford to pay for advice – and Kyles Legal stated [when I checked with them] that as long as I’d been truthful [I had] with them, then I was entitled. I fear the worst…

    Hi James,

    Any legal aid available for this will be held under a contract awarded by the LSC. Shelter should be able to tell you who the provider is.

    How far has this progressed, and are you in a position to pay at least the contractual monthly payment (ignoring other debts you may have)?

    DD
    Originally posted by debt doctor
    Thanks

    Not sure what that means [first paragraph] I only just got the ‘legal aid entitlement number’ – so [as far as I know] I haven’t ‘spent’ any of that money… second paragraph will be answered below


    Can you afford the ongoing mortgage either now or in the near future?
    How much equity in the property?
    How long has the mortgage got to run?
    Are you working / not working?
    Do you live alone or do you have family / children?
    Who is the lender?
    What stage are things at?
    DD
    Originally posted by debt doctor
    Can you afford the ongoing mortgage either now or in the near future?


    I will start payments [even though they haven’t agreed to them] from the 20th of this month

    How much equity in the property?

    The mortgage is for less than a 1/3 of the property’s value

    How long has the mortgage got to run?

    4 Years and 7 months

    Are you working / not working?

    Started again on Monday just gone [5th Nov]

    Do you live alone or do you have family / children?

    Alone

    Who is the lender?


    Barclays

    What stage are things at?


    Possession Proceedings issued for court case beginning of December

    OTHER INFO:

    I contacted them BEFORE I went into arrears [several times] as I stupidly got a short and expensive mortgage, and didn’t anticipate things changing in the future

    My mother has Alzheimer’s – I wanted to ‘give up’ work to look after her

    Eventually I wasn’t able to pay the mortgage any more

    I have missed 9 or 10 payments

    All the while I have tried to contact them, to meet up and sort it out. I was under the impression I could go interest only, or extend the mortgage to 25 years. Where it would be easy to pay off

    For the first three years I had over paid 10% each year [not that helps now]

    I have made FOUR offers of repayment. The most recent one was to pay back the arrears of the lifetime of the mortgage. The other ones were all much quicker repayments. They refused all of these.

    I’m not very good at understanding financial stuff. Their reasoning was my not having paid service charge/ground rent. I had a year outstanding – so I borrowed money to pay that off [before I made the fourth offer]. It was at this point [when they refused that] that I understood they meant historic service charge.

    As after I contacted them [before I went into arrears] because I couldn’t afford both I paid the mortgage each month, thinking they were going to ‘do a deal’ and then I would be ok. But the service charge then [a year ago] go added onto my mortgage. They didn’t ‘call in’ my mortgage then.

    So I believe that is the issue.

    It’s annoying as I have gone back to work 7 days a week – to pay for the mortgage… but they won’t do a deal. And ignored me for the last year. They won’t talk to me. If they had of told me this a year ago – I could have tried to find another mortgage [before my money history was ruined by the missed payments] or I could have kept working. I was told that to go interest only was easier if I was already in arrears. That was before I went into arrears. Nice one Barclays. I also have a feeling now they on purpose refused to arrange a meeting to sort it out – to string me along. I wish they had of explained things to me.

    I hope that helps [?]

    So the problem isn’t so much the arrears – but the service charge. I don’t have the mortgage contract – but I would suspect they are correct that I breached their rules.

    As I said I’m not very good at financial type stuff
    • james72
    • By james72 9th Nov 18, 10:03 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    james72
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:03 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 10:03 AM
    Can you afford the ongoing mortgage either now or in the near future?

    DD
    Originally posted by debt doctor

    Just to answer that one better.


    I have just started work again.


    For the first six months I have a friend who is going to help me, if I need it, to make sure I can pay monthly payments.



    After that point [or well before I hope] I should be back into the swing of things.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 9th Nov 18, 11:47 AM
    • 38,152 Posts
    • 160,431 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:47 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:47 AM
    Make sure all your correspondence with Barclays is in writing, keep copies of everything.

    This :
    I have made FOUR offers of repayment. The most recent one was to pay back the arrears of the lifetime of the mortgage. The other ones were all much quicker repayments. They refused all of these.
    is important. A judge is less likely to be sympathetic to a lender who has not made an effort to reach agreement with the borrower.

    Have a look at some recent ombudsman rulings, to see if your lender has complied with recommendations.

    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/103/103-mortgage-arrears.html
    • james72
    • By james72 9th Nov 18, 12:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    james72
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:01 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:01 PM
    Hi


    I have three of the four offers in writing [email] but to the litigator who passed it on to Barclays


    Then the litagator responded by email, to say that Barclays rejected each offer


    I have all of them. The fourth one was added to the first offer [as another option] - that I refer to - in email - and I think they do to [without going into it too much] - but it's not as obviously written and responded to as the others.


    I think the issue is 100% the service charge [breach of contract] - from a year ago. As they have rejected the offers rather confidently.


    That's what I'm scared of - is that I'm in trouble because of that and have no way out [with offers]
    • james72
    • By james72 9th Nov 18, 12:07 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    james72
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:07 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:07 PM
    What a waste of a day


    I had my call with the solicitor



    Expecting him to ask questions about whether I was entitled to legal aid


    He just said that legal aid didn't cover mortgage possession hearings, but only if they are selling the property [?]


    I think he just didn't want to take legal aid?


    G'ah


    Back to square one - another day lost and the weekend upon me
    • broaps
    • By broaps 9th Nov 18, 1:14 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    broaps
    Very sorry to hear your problems. A long time ago we were in arrears with our mortgage and were taken to court by Natwest. We had made them an offer but they insisted on still going to court. The judge was incredibly helpful and accepted our offer to increase the repayments to clear the arrears rather than be made homeless. It was a long time ago, maybe 30 years, but I think things are even more controlled these days so try not to be too despairing. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Good luck.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 9th Nov 18, 2:43 PM
    • 38,152 Posts
    • 160,431 Thanks
    silvercar
    With all respect to solicitors who have experience in mortgage repossessions, I feel you should focus your attention on dealing with the repossession hearing and less on the legal aid.

    As traumatic and new this is for you, there are plenty of people who have either been through this themselves or work with debt charities to advise others.

    Get your paperwork in order and decide on your defence; that would be better use of your time than chasing legal aid.

    Your defence would be:

    1. The service charge is up to date and you undertake to keep it that way.
    2. Your offer to repay the arrears and keep up with repayments going forward.

    1. is straightforward.
    2 means you deciding on what you want to ask for. I would suggest considering whether capitilising the arrears over the remaining mortgage period ie adding the arrears to the loan and then keeping the mortgage period and the repayment type would be hard for the lender to argue against. There are other options eg extending the mortgage term is an option to request, that may be acceptable. Lenders are not that keen on interest only where there is no plan on how you repay the loan at the end of the term.
    • ToxtethO'Grady
    • By ToxtethO'Grady 9th Nov 18, 6:42 PM
    • 159 Posts
    • 85 Thanks
    ToxtethO'Grady
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/courts_and_legal_action
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 9th Nov 18, 7:48 PM
    • 4,360 Posts
    • 6,026 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Hi,

    If you divide the mortgage arrears by 55 (months remaining on mortgage) what figure do you get?

    Is the service charge now up to date?

    How old are you?

    The actual ground being used for possession (some confusion arrears/ service charge / both?) will be within the possession papers issued to you for the hearing in December.

    DD
    Last edited by debt doctor; 09-11-2018 at 8:04 PM.
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 9th Nov 18, 7:57 PM
    • 4,360 Posts
    • 6,026 Thanks
    debt doctor
    You are going to need to satisfy the case of Norgan v Cheltnam & Gloucester, a high court case referred to hundreds of times per month in courts in England and Wales. It says that you can repay the arrears over the remaining term of the mortgage but in addition must pay the contractual payment too. The longer the remaining term, the less the monthly payment to the arrears.

    If you are unable to do this, we will need to look at other options.

    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
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