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    • katie4
    • By katie4 8th Nov 18, 4:37 PM
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    katie4
    Clinical negligence
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 18, 4:37 PM
    Clinical negligence 8th Nov 18 at 4:37 PM
    Hi I am not sure if this is the right forum or not so apologies in advance


    il try to make a long story short
    husband went to a&e with severe trismus (lockjaw) they sent him away saying theyre not dentist and why hadn't he gone to his dentist, well he had and his dentist told him to go to a&e


    by this point he hadn't eaten for almost a week as he physically couldn't anyway we went to a&e of another hospital and they admitted him straight away with concerns that he had a potential mass in his neck and they were worried about his breathing and booked him in for surgery the next day! all a shock he is fine now


    but he wrote a complaint to the first hospital about being sent away and how they showed no regard for him what so ever never got a reply rang them theyre dealing with it


    rang again today and they have said they feel an apology isn't enough they feel it is more complex and have handed it over to the redress team who deal with clinical negligence


    I am just wondering what exactly that means? if anyone can help thanks

Page 1
    • waamo
    • By waamo 8th Nov 18, 5:42 PM
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    waamo
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 5:42 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 5:42 PM
    It sounds like they are considering offering compensation for their potential error.

    They probably want to avoid the risk of legal action and the expense that it involves.

    Why not ring them to clarify the matter?
    This space for hire.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 12:06 AM
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    Manxman in exile
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:06 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:06 AM
    That sounds as though it may be promising...


    BTW, I would only be communicating with them by writing and not over the 'phone. This leaves a paper trail and also minimises the likelihood of misunderstandings.
    • pramsay13
    • By pramsay13 9th Nov 18, 6:13 AM
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    pramsay13
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 6:13 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Nov 18, 6:13 AM
    I think you should say to them an apology is perfectly acceptable thank you very much and then sleep easy in the knowledge that you have not added to last year's 1.63bn bill for damages.
    https://resolution.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NHS-Resolution-Annual-Report-2017-2018.pdf
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 9th Nov 18, 9:02 AM
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    peter_the_piper
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:02 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Nov 18, 9:02 AM
    I think you should say to them an apology is perfectly acceptable thank you very much and then sleep easy in the knowledge that you have not added to last year's 1.63bn bill for damages.
    https://resolution.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NHS-Resolution-Annual-Report-2017-2018.pdf
    Originally posted by pramsay13
    Whilst this is the right answer, a written apology would be used by some to screw even more,in the way of compensation, out of them.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • katie4
    • By katie4 9th Nov 18, 11:49 AM
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    katie4
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:49 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:49 AM
    I think you should say to them an apology is perfectly acceptable thank you very much and then sleep easy in the knowledge that you have not added to last year's 1.63bn bill for damages.
    https://resolution.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NHS-Resolution-Annual-Report-2017-2018.pdf
    Originally posted by pramsay13
    Thanks for your reply my husbands life was put in danger and we felt we had to write to them to inform them of what had happened so it won't happen to anybody else, we were never expecting any form of compensation

    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Nov 18, 11:59 AM
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    marliepanda
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:59 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Nov 18, 11:59 AM
    Thanks for your reply my husbands life was put in danger and we felt we had to write to them to inform them of what had happened so it won't happen to anybody else, we were never expecting any form of compensation
    Originally posted by katie4
    How long was between hospital visit 1 and hospital visit 2?
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 12:32 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:32 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:32 PM
    I think you should say to them an apology is perfectly acceptable thank you very much and then sleep easy in the knowledge that you have not added to last year's 1.63bn bill for damages.
    https://resolution.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NHS-Resolution-Annual-Report-2017-2018.pdf
    Originally posted by pramsay13

    Having worked in the NHS for 25 years I'm not sure that I agree with you.


    The level of damages awarded against NHS trusts was a popular topic for discussion amongst senior managers. My view was always that if you don't want to pay out you have to ensure that your staff are competent and not negligent in any way.


    In any case, it's not clear what harm if any the husband suffered, and the OP says all they want is an apology. (EDIT: although if the OP and her husband had not gone to another A&E dept. the outcome may have been different. It's not acceptable).


    Personally, as a former NHS manager, I'd also want to know what steps the trust is taking to minimise this sort of failure happening again.


    (In some health systems damages for clinical negligence have been capped which has resulted in falling standards of care.)
    Last edited by Manxman in exile; 09-11-2018 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Add
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 9th Nov 18, 12:40 PM
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    Pennywise
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:40 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:40 PM
    Nothing to stop you donating any compensation you receive to a good cause or charity. If it were me, after family members suffering medical negligence but deciding not to pursue it (and suffering more negligence later!), I'd definitely pursue it in the hope the changes would be made meaning the NHS doesn't harm others.
    • katie4
    • By katie4 9th Nov 18, 1:02 PM
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    katie4
    How long was between hospital visit 1 and hospital visit 2?
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    we went the next day

    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Nov 18, 1:04 PM
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    marliepanda
    we went the next day
    Originally posted by katie4
    Okay. When you said to the doctor/nurse 'we have already been to the dentist and they advised A&E' what was their response?
    • katie4
    • By katie4 9th Nov 18, 1:13 PM
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    katie4
    Okay. When you said to the doctor/nurse 'we have already been to the dentist and they advised A&E' what was their response?
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    They said they didn't know what we expected them to do for us and just reiterated the fact that they're not dentists when we clearly said this isn't a dental matter though and the dentist had advised him to go to a&e

    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 1:16 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    Nothing to stop you donating any compensation you receive to a good cause or charity. If it were me, after family members suffering medical negligence but deciding not to pursue it (and suffering more negligence later!), I'd definitely pursue it in the hope the changes would be made meaning the NHS doesn't harm others.
    Originally posted by Pennywise

    If I (or my wife) suffered loss or injury as a result of clinical negligence, I'd definitely be pursuing a claim! I can assure you that better lessons are learned when rather than apologies are involved.


    I attended a Healthcare Economics seminar some years ago when they looked at, I think, New Zealand(can't remember where exactly - long tome ago). They'd introduced a strict liability/no fault compensation scheme (to avoid litigation) but the level of damages was drastically reduced. Because clinicians could no longer be found to be at fault, standards gradually fell, Whether this is still true I don't know.


    Pennywise - you are an accountant? I've often wondered if limited liability accountancy partnerships are now a little more reckless than they would be if the partners were still personally liable?


    OP - apologies for wandering off topic!
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 1:21 PM
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    Manxman in exile
    I would have thought lockjaw was a medical rather than dental problem?


    Kayie4 - you are waiting on a response from the Redress(?) team. Let us know what they say.
    • Money maker
    • By Money maker 9th Nov 18, 1:42 PM
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    Money maker
    Tetanus is medical not dental.
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    • katie4
    • By katie4 9th Nov 18, 1:50 PM
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    katie4
    Tetanus is medical not dental.
    Originally posted by Money maker
    Trismus not tetanus

    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 9th Nov 18, 2:08 PM
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    Carrot007
    Tough one, there apepar to be issues on both side (from the little you have given).


    Who told you to go away? If it was that bad you should have waited untill seen by a doctor and yes you can insist upon that regardless of what the front desk or triage person thinks. They are not a doctor. Sometimes you have to push your point.


    Why did you go to a different a&e? That just sound odd. Why did you not go back to the first (or why did you choose the first anyway). It always going to be different on a different day. Why did you also wait another day? Did you return to the dentist as advised?


    Yes you have been trated bad and yes it is becuase of both cuts and idiots clogging up a&e with trivial nonsence they do not need to. But it sounds like you decided that they were right and took their advise. If you thought otherwise you would have stayed or gone elsewhere right away. Ity is unfortunate that they have so little resources and need to try to turn away poepl who do not need the service and can sometimes focus on the wrong thing. But if you knew better you did not seem to help.


    (this comes from someone who had a family member who would have died if they had not insisted on seeing a doctor at a&e when the other staff wanted to turn them away).
    • katie4
    • By katie4 9th Nov 18, 2:15 PM
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    katie4
    Tough one, there apepar to be issues on both side (from the little you have given).


    Who told you to go away? If it was that bad you should have waited untill seen by a doctor and yes you can insist upon that regardless of what the front desk or triage person thinks. They are not a doctor. Sometimes you have to push your point.


    Why did you go to a different a&e? That just sound odd. Why did you not go back to the first (or why did you choose the first anyway). It always going to be different on a different day. Why did you also wait another day? Did you return to the dentist as advised?


    Yes you have been trated bad and yes it is becuase of both cuts and idiots clogging up a&e with trivial nonsence they do not need to. But it sounds like you decided that they were right and took their advise. If you thought otherwise you would have stayed or gone elsewhere right away. Ity is unfortunate that they have so little resources and need to try to turn away poepl who do not need the service and can sometimes focus on the wrong thing. But if you knew better you did not seem to help.


    (this comes from someone who had a family member who would have died if they had not insisted on seeing a doctor at a&e when the other staff wanted to turn them away).
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    It was the doctor who turned us away, we did insist but he refused to see him as he thought it was a dental issue, we went to the other a&e as they have a specialist maxiofacial clinic which the dentist had recommended they are the ones who were very concerned about my husband

    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 9th Nov 18, 3:26 PM
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    Gavin83
    If I (or my wife) suffered loss or injury as a result of clinical negligence, I'd definitely be pursuing a claim!
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    So would I, except that isn't what happened here.

    Honestly OP, whatever compensation you receive is likely to be very small and frankly not worth the hassle. You'd be better off asking for an apology (although honesty you might not get it) and a reassurance that training/notice is given that such an issue is medical and won't reoccur.
    • katie4
    • By katie4 9th Nov 18, 3:43 PM
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    katie4
    So would I, except that isn't what happened here.

    Honestly OP, whatever compensation you receive is likely to be very small and frankly not worth the hassle. You'd be better off asking for an apology (although honesty you might not get it) and a reassurance that training/notice is given that such an issue is medical and won't reoccur.
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    Thanks Gavin however we have not asked for compensation which is why were were confused when they said it is going redress for negligence we just had to let them know about the appauling treatment of my husband

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