Electric cars

almillar · 17 April 2018 at 12:52PM

Perhaps we should take the hint and do the same. M.

I agree, but it's difficult when you keep flinging stuff at me.

I questioned one thing (that YOU said, not the article),

I need to rephrase this. I questioned what you said, not what the article said. I still haven't read the article. I've read what you quote from it, but it's not relevant to what *I* am talking about. My only point remains that rebadging that Mitsubishi twice, stocking it, selling it, promoting it etc since 2010 shows some commitment to the EV market. You dismiss it completely.

and was before you realised all 3 cars were the same Mitsu

Sigh. Yes, I've always known this, what with them looking almost identical. Peugeot and Citroen also sell/sold their own Mitsubishi Outlanders, if you're counting.

all of your replies appear to be dead horse flogging

What you call dead horse flogging I call sticking to one point. No name calling or anything, I just thought you had been a bit harsh on PSA in respect of EV commitment.
I cited production models, Adrian cited a bunch of cars, vans, projects, all of which you have brushed over.

Ah, you're back, thought I'd lost you for a moment there, so just to remind you, still waiting for your answers:

Just like this poor distraction tactic. You can't expect answers from Adrian if you don't answer his.

We have different opinions on this matter, our opinions are of little to no importance, so get over it.

OK, done.

Martyn1981 · 17 April 2018 at 12:55PM

almillar wrote: »

I agree, but it's difficult when you keep flinging stuff at me.

I need to rephrase this. I questioned what you said, not what the article said. I still haven't read the article. I've read what you quote from it, but it's not relevant to what *I* am talking about. My only point remains that rebadging that Mitsubishi twice, stocking it, selling it, promoting it etc since 2010 shows some commitment to the EV market. You dismiss it completely.

Sigh. Yes, I've always known this, what with them looking almost identical. Peugeot and Citroen also sell/sold their own Mitsubishi Outlanders, if you're counting.

What you call dead horse flogging I call sticking to one point. No name calling or anything, I just thought you had been a bit harsh on PSA in respect of EV commitment.
I cited production models, Adrian cited a bunch of cars, vans, projects, all of which you have brushed over.

Just like this poor distraction tactic. You can't expect answers from Adrian if you don't answer his.

OK, done.

The horse is dead Al, the horse is dead.

Martyn1981 · 17 April 2018 at 3:46PM

The Jaguar I-Pace seems to be getting a lot of good press, there's a long revue of it on Fully Charged. It's a lot of money, but also a lot of money less than a Tesla X.

Jaguar I-PACE First Drive | Fully Charged

AdrianC · 17 April 2018 at 8:40PM

AdrianC wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 production problems "down to automation", and human labour is the answer.
...
So production is getting onto track - finally. Good.

Looks like I might have spoken too soon...

Production is alleged to be shutting down completely, with most staff either taking holiday days (remember, the US typically only gives 14 days/year) or just staying home unpaid. Perhaps just for 4-5 days, but what could possibly go wrong?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-16/tesla-shutting-down-model-3-production-buzzfeed

Martyn1981 · 18 April 2018 at 7:10AM

Looks like Germany is finally waking up to the fact that diesels are not the future, and that they need to be able to compete against the best EV's going forward.

Germany’s Economy Minister: Auto Manufacturers Need To Invest Tens Of Billions Into EVs

“Altmaier said German carmakers needed to develop a model that had at least the range of a Tesla but costs less, and should work on developing an information technology platform for self-driving cars that was the best in the world.”

That bit about undercutting Tesla on pricing is interesting. Presumably, Altmaier is talking about the Tesla Model 3, the model probably posing the most danger to auto manufacturer profits in Germany, but which company would be able to manage that? I suppose Volkswagen theoretically could (presuming cheap electric vehicle batteries could be had), but will it?

AdrianC · 18 April 2018 at 8:11AM

Might we be forgetting the VW e-Golf? On the market since 2014, currently £33k with 300km official range.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/golf-vii-pa/explore/e-golf

Hasn't sold well here, though, so far. Less than 200 registered, from HML.

Merc and BMW appear to be going with the "parallel model" strategy, rather than all-electric 3-series and C-class.

Uxb · 18 April 2018 at 11:26AM

300Km is 187 miles, though speakev forums seem to indicate a real world range in the lower 100 figure rather than the higher 100 figure.

Once EV's get to the 250 to 300 miles capacity from full charge in all conditions and temperatures and up to 70mph speed usage then their viability as a sole vehicle will increase very considerably as that is the most normally done in one day by a vehicle outside business use.
At the moment they are just not economically viable for most.
I'd regularly do 100 miles and park up in a remote rural location and say walk or cycle as recreation and then do 100 miles back on fast roads: EV's totally unsuitable: bar the Tesla.

Yes I know two people who have Tesla S's - very nice they are and considering the price so they should be - mind you they all have their ICE car as well so the Tesla is rather for show to demonstrate how green they are ---or whatever.
As it is, my last replacement car cost a couple of £K. I can do a lot of maintenance, fuel and cam belt changes on that in the next 10 years for the price of a Tesla. I mean at £2K I could even not bother about servicing and MOT and simple scrap it and buy a new ICE each year and still be quids in.

What will be interesting is how the second hand market in EV's is going to work.
Currently getting parts for a 10 year old ICE car is no problem.
One wonders if 5+ year old EV's will run up against the Microsoft/Apple/Intel problem of old computers: software no longer supported, no updates available, repair IC's no longer produced -- car basically scrap.
That scenario could push motoring back to the early days of car ownership: only for the rich.

maxmycardagain · 18 April 2018 at 11:38AM

The Tesla 3 is the only one id look at

maxmycardagain · 18 April 2018 at 11:41AM

HMG have already hammered new leccy cars with the tax on new ones over £40K (how many are under £40K?)

When the revenue from petrol/diesel sales falls the tax on leccy cars will rocket

Batteries are useless, we need fuel cell cars

almillar · 18 April 2018 at 2:10PM

Might we be forgetting the VW e-Golf?

I know someone who bought one. She found it very difficult to persuade dealers to actually take her money off her. This looks like a good example of a car the mamufacturer wanted the press for, but to not actually have to build. Price isn't that competitive either, but a good car apparantly.

And I would place BMW way ahead of Merc with EVs - i3 (a mass produced carbon fibre chassis!) vs a (nice, but no longer for sale) B-Class with no fast charging.

One wonders if 5+ year old EV's will run up against the Microsoft/Apple/Intel problem of old computers: software no longer supported, no updates available, repair IC's no longer produced -- car basically scrap.

Have a look at the price of a new ECU for a 10 year old ICE car - scrap.

new leccy cars with the tax on new ones over £40K (how many are under £40K?)

Most of them?!

Batteries are useless, we need fuel cell cars

All way, way over £40k.

Electric cars

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