Charging Order? The myth

BrunoWales · 18 July 2019 at 3:00PM

Hi LR

We have only just began the remortgage process but I haven't mentioned the restriction as I didn't think it would be an issue in regards to getting an offer and they didn't ask on the application. I can probably arrange a full and final settlement to get the restriction removed if required. It may be wise to pull the plug on the process until I get the restriction removed.

lordoftheundead · 19 July 2019 at 9:26PM

Dear LR,

If a Form A restriction is recorded with 2 registered proprietors in accordance with a deed of trust. Regarding a form K restriction against a trustee (registered proprietor) with a beneficial interest, what would happen if the trustee no longer had a beneficial interest?

would a certificate in accordance with the restiction need to be provided to LR by the beneficiaries(s) who obtained the interest to remove the Form K restriction?

Hope that makes sense

Cheers

Land_Registry · 21 July 2019 at 8:10AM

lordoftheundead wrote: »

Dear LR,

If a Form A restriction is recorded with 2 registered proprietors in accordance with a deed of trust. Regarding a form K restriction against a trustee (registered proprietor) with a beneficial interest, what would happen if the trustee no longer had a beneficial interest?

would a certificate in accordance with the restiction need to be provided to LR by the beneficiaries(s) who obtained the interest to remove the Form K restriction?

Hope that makes sense

Cheers

Not really - you comply with the restriction when it catches your application, namely a disposition. But you haven't said what that is.

lordoftheundead · 22 July 2019 at 9:40AM

Land_Registry wrote: »

Not really - you comply with the restriction when it catches your application, namely a disposition. But you haven't said what that is.

Thank you LR
May I ask what you mean by 'you comply with the restriction when it catches your application'? what application?

To my knowledge the registered disposition is the order in with an interest in the property is dispersed which in this example is:

Dispersed to 2 trustees who then disperse funds in accordance with deed of trust which is for example:
1) discharge legal mortgage
2) Named beneficiaries.

If the restriction is against a beneficial interest of someone who is not/or no longer is a beneficiary, there is no beneficial interest to which to attach a restriction.
I am wondering how i notify LR that a restriction is registered against a beneficial interest that doesn't exist.

i hope that makes some sense, thank you

Land_Registry · 22 July 2019 at 2:01PM

lordoftheundead wrote: »

Thank you LR
May I ask what you mean by 'you comply with the restriction when it catches your application'? what application?

To my knowledge the registered disposition is the order in with an interest in the property is dispersed which in this example is:

Dispersed to 2 trustees who then disperse funds in accordance with deed of trust which is for example:
1) discharge legal mortgage
2) Named beneficiaries.

If the restriction is against a beneficial interest of someone who is not/or no longer is a beneficiary, there is no beneficial interest to which to attach a restriction.
I am wondering how i notify LR that a restriction is registered against a beneficial interest that doesn't exist.

i hope that makes some sense, thank you

I don't know what the disposition is, hence my asking you?

Dispersing a beneficial interest is not a disposition so would not change a registered title, which registers the legal ownership. The issue you have is that the legal ownership is registered in the debtor's name it seems. So notifying us of anything would not change the register.

If you want to apply to cancel the form K then you need to use form RX3 and provide supporting evidence as to why it should be cancelled. We'd then consider your application.

Wookiee501 · 23 July 2019 at 4:33PM

lordoftheundead wrote: »

Thank you LR
May I ask what you mean by 'you comply with the restriction when it catches your application'? what application?

To my knowledge the registered disposition is the order in with an interest in the property is dispersed which in this example is:

Dispersed to 2 trustees who then disperse funds in accordance with deed of trust which is for example:
1) discharge legal mortgage
2) Named beneficiaries.

If the restriction is against a beneficial interest of someone who is not/or no longer is a beneficiary, there is no beneficial interest to which to attach a restriction.
I am wondering how i notify LR that a restriction is registered against a beneficial interest that doesn't exist.

i hope that makes some sense, thank you

In this scenario, you need to prove how the beneficial interest has come to an end (or why they were never a beneficial owner in the first place) - LR will not just take your word for it, you need actual evidence in the form of a statutory declaration or statement of truth and supporting documentation. Even this may not be enough to cancel a Form K restriction, as you've got conflict between legal ownership (the proprietors shown on the register) and beneficial ownership (which LR aren't really interested in). A charging order attempts to charge whatever beneficial interest an individual may have in a property - it would require some extremely firm evidence for LR to consider cancelling a Form K when the individual is still a legal owner of the property.

Jackie235 · 18 August 2019 at 11:57AM

Land_Registry wrote: »

eggbox is far better placed to advise you on what to do here

All we can do is suggest that you draw your solicitor's attention to a) the wording of the restriction and b) our Practice Guide 76 section 4 paragraph 3 and how a form K restriction is automatically cancelled once it has been complied with on registering a transfer of the registered estate for valuable consideration for example presumably the sale by the two of you to .

Dear LR rep, wondered if you could advise on this please, the completion date was 19th July, the LR title deeds are still showing my name on, is there a timescale for registration to be completed?
I think the buyers solicitor sent in the transfer a week before the completion date so now I'm concerned its taking so long.
The mortgage has disappeared from the record (pretty much straight away) so I look like I own the house outright!

eggbox · 18 August 2019 at 2:39PM

Hi Jackie I wouldn't worry too much as previous posters have had the same concerns after they were advised about 3 weeks for the process to complete. As with any Government department, time guide lines are extremely arbitrary and can often take double the estimate given. As nobody has contacted you to say there is a problem, the delay will just be the process taking longer than it should for the above reason.

Jackie235 · 18 August 2019 at 2:56PM

eggbox wrote: »

Hi Jackie I wouldn't worry too much as previous posters have had the same concerns after they were advised about 3 weeks for the process to complete. As with any Government department, time guide lines are extremely arbitrary and can often take double the estimate given. As nobody has contacted you to say there is a problem, the delay will just be the process taking longer than it should for the above reason.

Hi eggbox, thanks for the reply, just seems to be taking ages and not sure if you recall but I mentioned that SS had made an error and only requested a charging order (restriction) for one of my four accounts (one with the highest value) they have obviously realised they have missed the other 3 and have just received a letter from LR notifying me of their intent to register another one of the CCJs as a restriction, letter is dated 16th August so it's making me nervous!!

I have had contact from my conveyancing solicitor saying the SS have contacted them and want to see a completion statement to see what profit there was left from the sale, as again they have lied to them stating that they have final charging orders for the full amount for all four accounts! do they have to send them this to SS? I can't believe that they are allowed to lie to another solicitor in writing in order to get paid!???

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Jackie235 · 18 August 2019 at 3:00PM

Jackie235 wrote: »

Hi eggbox, thanks for the reply, just seems to be taking ages and not sure if you recall but I mentioned that SS had made an error and only requested a charging order (restriction) for one of my four accounts (one with the highest value) they have obviously realised they have missed the other 3 and have just received a letter from LR notifying me of their intent to register another one of the CCJs as a restriction, letter is dated 16th August so it's making me nervous!!

I have had contact from my conveyancing solicitor saying the SS have contacted them and want to see a completion statement to see what profit there was left from the sale, as again they have lied to them stating that they have final charging orders for the full amount for all four accounts! do they have to send them this to SS? I can't believe that they are allowed to lie to another solicitor in writing in order to get paid!???

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Also, not sure if I mentioned but my solicitor have held back enough money (plus some extra) from the sale to cover the balance of all four accounts should it all go wrong, its in their client account, they said it was an undertaking that they would hold it back if the restriction didn't overreach for some reason.
Its also making me nervous!

Charging Order? The myth

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