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  • FIRST POST
    • DesmondT
    • By DesmondT 11th Oct 18, 9:40 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 3Thanks
    DesmondT
    Patisserie Valerie
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 18, 9:40 PM
    Patisserie Valerie 11th Oct 18 at 9:40 PM
    Hello
    I'm unfortunate to have a significant shareholding in PV via my SIPP. I did my research, studied the books (via Stockopedia), understood the business and invested a modest proportion of my fund over the last. year. All the indications were that this was a stable, low risk company with good growth potential. It now appears that there may have been some fraudulent accounting and at the very least it looks like the auditors were negligent.

    My question is, assuming that the Company goes into administration, what steps can I take to recover what are likely to be significant loses? If I own these shares through a SIPP (in my case Hargreaves Lansdowne) am I still able to bring an action as a shareholder? In general do I have any come-back on this?

    Thanks for any input.
Page 5
    • londoninvestor
    • By londoninvestor 15th Oct 18, 7:39 PM
    • 1,073 Posts
    • 960 Thanks
    londoninvestor
    ah, you never did any work with Boo dot com then
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Memory lane!

    How about that plucky home-grown British Amazon challenger, jungle dot com?
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 15th Oct 18, 7:40 PM
    • 3,284 Posts
    • 2,144 Thanks
    greenglide
    It probably won't be too long before the zero-hours army will collect the stuff from your doorstep
    The Hermes lady who delivers to us has given us her mobile number so we can call her to collect returns.


    We haven't used this as dropping them off at the post office / filling station is more convenient for us.
    • Sapphire
    • By Sapphire 15th Oct 18, 11:19 PM
    • 2,829 Posts
    • 6,162 Thanks
    Sapphire
    FWIW I bought shoes yesterday in an actual shop, but if I did buy online, I'd order multiple pairs of slightly different sizes rather than try them one ata time.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Regarding shoes (most clothing, in fact), I would only buy them online if I've already bought a pair or two of a particular brand from shops and found they always fit. My most recent three pairs of shoes (small boots) have all come from abroad and fit perfectly, but only because I know the brand and that they will fit (they are of quite good quality and well made).

    I always had trouble buying comfortable shoes in shops, and would need to try multiple pairs to find ones that both fit well and look good.

    Someone also mentioned books. My book purchasing has gone right down since so many bookshops closed. Used to buy several books at a time often, after browsing and checking what books I wanted (generally knew what books would suit me by flicking through them), but it's not possible to do that now, at least not nearly to the extent that it was before, when there were various specialized bookshops, as well as general ones, that one could drop into. So I'm limited to my home library, books by authors I know and trust (don't trust reviews), those by authors I know personally, and the odd purchase at an exhibition.
    Last edited by Sapphire; 15-10-2018 at 11:27 PM.
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 16th Oct 18, 5:51 AM
    • 1,354 Posts
    • 1,120 Thanks
    Apodemus
    Sapphire, my own on-line buying sounds a bit like yours, with plenty of repeat purchases of products I already know and a hesitancy over risking new products. If everyone was like us there would be a barrier to entry and a concentration of production and sales in fewer hands. In fact, the evidence is contrary to this and the web has widened choice and assisted small players to sell on a bigger market. So I can only assume that my (current?) behaviour is transitional and that most people have already adopted a much more relaxed approach to the on-line market.
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 16th Oct 18, 7:53 AM
    • 1,963 Posts
    • 1,826 Thanks
    LHW99
    In fact, the evidence is contrary to this and the web has widened choice and assisted small players to sell on a bigger market.
    It has certainly done this which is a big positive.
    However I feel the balancing negative is that it enables sellers supposedly "in the UK" to be basically order collecters, where the goods actually come direct from the Far East - nothing wrong with that per se, but it should be stated up front IMO, not indicated that the item "is located in the UK" which I have found happen on at least one well known site.
    • Economic
    • By Economic 16th Oct 18, 9:42 AM
    • 470 Posts
    • 489 Thanks
    Economic
    Returning to the actual topic of this thread, the FT has an article:
    'Too smooth: the red flag at Patisserie Valerie which was missed'
    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/10/16/1539662400000/Too-smooth--the-red-flag-at-Patisserie-Valerie-which-was-missed/
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 16th Oct 18, 9:54 AM
    • 13,083 Posts
    • 8,996 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    Two minutes in the lunch hour in my case.
    Originally posted by Malthusian

    Surely you are joking!
    I generally found that a trip to the Post Office (Aberdeen) would consume my entire lunch break. One of my frustrations was that while my office had mail-franking kit, there was no mechanism for staff to pay for personal mail to be franked and so no alternative to visiting the Post Office.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 18th Oct 18, 10:14 AM
    • 63,458 Posts
    • 56,277 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    It is compared to renting shops in prime locations and paying people to stand around in them for hours on end.

    Or so I assume. I have no inside knowledge of the sector. I am simply assuming that the people who run online shops aren't completely moronic.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Cost saving for the online retailers is the business rates payable on their big box distribution centres. If Hammond addresses this in the forthcoming budget then the decline might start to be addressed.

    We do have too many retail shops. Consumerism is rife in the UK. What's really required is more smaller independents. Family business where people can earn a reasonable living. Not be driven by returns for shareholders. Will foster a better community spirit. Where goods and services can be bartered as well.
    “The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient.” – Warren Buffett
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 18th Oct 18, 11:32 AM
    • 5,888 Posts
    • 9,744 Thanks
    Malthusian
    We do have too many retail shops. Consumerism is rife in the UK. What's really required is more smaller independents.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    Make your mind up. Do you want fewer retail shops or more independents? If we demolish a big chain store it has to be replaced by multiple smaller independents, so more independents = even more too many shops, at greater expense due to economies of scale.

    Most independent shops are rubbish. The median independent is not the artisan cafe that sophisticated urbanites like to imagine, it's a kebab restaurant or a greasy spoon. With a chain you at least get a consistent level of rubbish, at a lower price. If you want something better than this then you have plenty of options available. Most people don't want something better.

    Family business where people can earn a reasonable living. Not be driven by returns for shareholders.
    Make your mind up. Family businesses are owned by shareholders. If you expect families to toil all day on the uphill struggle of running a family business and then give all their profits away, it's not going to happen.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 18th Oct 18, 1:39 PM
    • 63,458 Posts
    • 56,277 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Make your mind up. Do you want fewer retail shops or more independents? If we demolish a big chain store it has to be replaced by multiple smaller independents, so more independents = even more too many shops, at greater expense due to economies of scale.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    No it doesn't. Return to High Streets of old. Mixed use. Living breathing communities that operate 24/7. Will save car journeys to large out of town centres as well.
    “The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient.” – Warren Buffett
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 18th Oct 18, 1:39 PM
    • 4,306 Posts
    • 3,329 Thanks
    Glen Clark
    . What's really required is more smaller independents. .
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    I can remember the days before supermarkets when it was all small independents.
    Shopping was a pretty miserable experience I can tell you.
    Customers vote with their feet and most vote for the big chains.
    So shoppers have never had it so good as it is now
    PS: But don't expect the small independent retailers on the council to agree
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair
    • Economic
    • By Economic 16th Jan 19, 6:29 PM
    • 470 Posts
    • 489 Thanks
    Economic
    "Patisserie Valerie warns accounting scandal is worse than thought"
    https://www.ft.com/content/f139e9ee-19a7-11e9-9e64-d150b3105d21
    • Economic
    • By Economic 22nd Jan 19, 4:22 PM
    • 470 Posts
    • 489 Thanks
    Economic
    "Patisserie Valerie goes into administration"
    https://www.ft.com/content/b5e1ecf2-1e66-11e9-b126-46fc3ad87c65
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 22nd Jan 19, 4:37 PM
    • 13,234 Posts
    • 12,297 Thanks
    jimjames
    "Patisserie Valerie goes into administration"
    https://www.ft.com/content/b5e1ecf2-1e66-11e9-b126-46fc3ad87c65
    Originally posted by Economic
    Or this link that you don't need to register for

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46965761
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 22nd Jan 19, 8:42 PM
    • 12,480 Posts
    • 8,852 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    To be fair, the standard of their croissants had declined.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • ffacoffipawb
    • By ffacoffipawb 22nd Jan 19, 9:34 PM
    • 2,702 Posts
    • 1,865 Thanks
    ffacoffipawb
    To be fair, the standard of their croissants had declined.
    Originally posted by kidmugsy
    Perhaps the only thing they could cook properly was their books.
    Financial Independence achieved with SIPP PCLS in June 2019.
    Lovely jubbly.
    At 55 I feel too young to retire - going part time 2 days a week to see if I can tolerate it.
    A five day weekend, what's not to like?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 22nd Jan 19, 9:40 PM
    • 5,087 Posts
    • 4,408 Thanks
    Alexland
    Perhaps the only thing they could cook properly was their books.
    Originally posted by ffacoffipawb
    I was going to comment on their declining turnovers but figured it was in poor taste given the currant situation.
    • Plus
    • By Plus 22nd Jan 19, 11:07 PM
    • 409 Posts
    • 320 Thanks
    Plus
    "Patisserie Valerie goes into administration"
    Originally posted by Economic
    Oh, crumbs.
    • surfsister
    • By surfsister 23rd Jan 19, 7:32 AM
    • 7,376 Posts
    • 10,784 Thanks
    surfsister
    yes so sad another firm bites the dust!

    Patisserie Valerie collapses into administration after talks with lenders fail to save the cafe chain
    Patisserie Holdings reveals it has appointed administrators after fraud
    Cafe chain has 206 sites and the administration puts 2,800 jobs at risk
    The £40m black hole emerged last October and it has been fighting for survival
    Chairman and entrepreneur Luke Johnson extends loan to get staff paid
    • surfsister
    • By surfsister 23rd Jan 19, 7:33 AM
    • 7,376 Posts
    • 10,784 Thanks
    surfsister
    Make your mind up. Do you want fewer retail shops or more independents? If we demolish a big chain store it has to be replaced by multiple smaller independents, so more independents = even more too many shops, at greater expense due to economies of scale.

    Most independent shops are rubbish. The median independent is not the artisan cafe that sophisticated urbanites like to imagine, it's a kebab restaurant or a greasy spoon. With a chain you at least get a consistent level of rubbish, at a lower price. If you want something better than this then you have plenty of options available. Most people don't want something better.

    Make your mind up. Family businesses are owned by shareholders. If you expect families to toil all day on the uphill struggle of running a family business and then give all their profits away, it's not going to happen.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Business rates and council levy's which businesses have to pay to councils are simply way too high!! And car parking too. Bring hese down save the high street. Simples!
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