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    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 9th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    • 33Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    Landlord selling house
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    Landlord selling house 9th Oct 18 at 7:57 PM
    We moved 200 miles ago in April. Put our house on the market, signed a 6 month tenancy. We’ve had 2 house sales fall through and are now letting our property and staying in rented.

    The landlords agent wanted to do another 6 months in September, at which point we thought we would be buying a house here so have been honest (and were honest the entire way through) of our intentions. Now the house sale has fallen through, I’ve asked their intention so we know if we need to find somewhere to live or can we sign for another 6 months. Agent said she would contact landlord and expects she’ll want us to stay - this was last Tuesday. They’ve told us today that they put the house on the market(it went online Friday), and have someone wanting to view. They’re trying to keep us sweet, I think, by saying it’s so unlikely we’ll get notice this month (because that means moving 3 days before Christmas), as it’s unlikely to sell quickly.

    The viewer wants to come any evening next week between 5.30 and 5.45. I get home with my children about that time, it’s ridicilously inconvenient and quite frankly - I’m not sure I have any incentive to do the landlord a favour by allowing viewings. Am I within my rights to refuse? Someone must be home for a viewing because we have a dog that would get quite upset with strangers in his house unaccompanied!
Page 1
    • franklee
    • By franklee 9th Oct 18, 8:28 PM
    • 3,774 Posts
    • 4,084 Thanks
    franklee
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:28 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:28 PM
    What does your tenancy agreement say about viewings? If it says viewings in the last month or two of the tenancy then the viewing is in breach of that as you haven't been served notice so are not in the last month.

    If it says viewings for a sale (as opposed to inspect the state of repair) without restrictions apart from 24 hours notice then you can refuse the viewing but you would be in breach of the tenancy agreement.

    Usually some compromise is the recommended way to go. I do sympathise as viewings are a hassle and of no benefit to you.

    If you think the landlord/agent will use their key to go in against your express wishes then time to swap the locks.
    Last edited by franklee; 09-10-2018 at 8:31 PM.
    • Hutch100uk
    • By Hutch100uk 9th Oct 18, 8:33 PM
    • 510 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    Hutch100uk
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:33 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:33 PM
    You don't HAVE to allow access even though it states this in your lease. Worse case scenario is that they decide just to serve you notice anyway if you're being awkward about viewings. You have to decide whether you want to risk that.
    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 9th Oct 18, 8:38 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:38 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:38 PM
    I’ve checked the tenancy - it states 24 hours prior notice in writing and at a reasonable time, in cases where the landlord has served written notice of his intention to sell or within the last 2 months of the tenancy.

    We’ve had no written notice of their intention to sell - only a phone call. And that time in the evening is categorically not convenient (very tired 2 and 5 yr olds to herd into the bath and then bed!). I’m worried they expect me to vacate the property for the viewing, too.

    The letting agent messed up our deposit early on too - she didn’t allocate it to our account and I received an email from the deposit protection scheme to say no money had been paid in. She rectified it then, more than 2 months after we had moved in.

    I am aware I’m being awkward - I’m pretty miffed that they’re wanting to turf us out of our home with as little warning as possible, but if they don’t sell we may be able to stay. I’m not incentivised in any way to help!!
    • franklee
    • By franklee 9th Oct 18, 8:43 PM
    • 3,774 Posts
    • 4,084 Thanks
    franklee
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:43 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:43 PM
    Right so they need to meet their own terms first.

    You DO NOT have to vacate during the viewing, it's your home so you continue your routines as normal!

    PS: When notice is served (as it will eventually be) use this excellent document to see if they have messed up:

    https://markprichard.co.uk/content/documents/170522-Section-21-checker-tool.pdf
    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 9th Oct 18, 8:58 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:58 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Oct 18, 8:58 PM
    I can’t work out if our deposit was protected.

    We paid the money on 23/04, she paid into the DPS with the reference “number/street name”, and set up an account file. She didn’t allocate the money to our account so DPS emailed me on 02/07 to say they hadn’t received a deposit so would be closing the file - letting agent sorted it on 03/07 and showed me the allocation tool to assure me the money had been paid in.

    Am I right to assume it WASNT protected, because she could probably have withdrawn an unallocated sum even though the intention was to protect it?
    • franklee
    • By franklee 9th Oct 18, 9:06 PM
    • 3,774 Posts
    • 4,084 Thanks
    franklee
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:06 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:06 PM
    It may be protected but it sounds like it was late. You should have been given prescribed information that tells you how the deposit scheme it's in works etc. Both these issues mean a S21 notice might not be valid (see above document for details).

    I would go into the DPS website and see if it's there:

    https://myaccount.depositprotection.com/#tenancy/checkDepositStatus
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Oct 18, 9:08 PM
    • 48,238 Posts
    • 59,148 Thanks
    G_M
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:08 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:08 PM
    I can’t work out if our deposit was protected.

    We paid the money on 23/04, she paid into the DPS with the reference “number/street name”, and set up an account file. She didn’t allocate the money to our account so DPS emailed me on 02/07 to say they hadn’t received a deposit so would be closing the file - letting agent sorted it on 03/07 and showed me the allocation tool to assure me the money had been paid in.

    Am I right to assume it WASNT protected, because she could probably have withdrawn an unallocated sum even though the intention was to protect it?
    Originally posted by Kim.wigley
    Well by the sound of it it certainly wasn't protected within the 30 day time limit - so you can claim the penalty for late protection.


    Whether it is now protected sems unclear - check the schemes (all of them). It will either be there or it won't. Don't rely on what the LL/agent tells you - check for yourself.


    * Deposits: payment, protection and return
    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 9th Oct 18, 9:14 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:14 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Oct 18, 9:14 PM


    Does this likely make us un-evictable? At least, easily!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Oct 18, 9:17 PM
    • 48,238 Posts
    • 59,148 Thanks
    G_M


    Does this likely make us un-evictable? At least, easily!
    Originally posted by Kim.wigley
    Have you been through the checklist franklee gave you above?
    • Kim.wigley
    • By Kim.wigley 9th Oct 18, 9:21 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Kim.wigley
    Yes, the only thing they’ve currently done wrong (we haven’t been issued a s21 yet because the landlord doesn’t want a void period and will only give us notice when she’s ready to exchange....), is to not protect our deposit within 30 days.

    I don’t think the picture has come through, it was a screenshot of the DPS certificate, showing tenancy began 23/04 and deposit protected 05/07. I can find nothing about the allocation tool she spoke of so it may have been a bit of a story.
    • wesleyad
    • By wesleyad 10th Oct 18, 8:28 AM
    • 497 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    wesleyad
    Best way to deal with viewings at that time is scatter childrens clothes everywhere, have kids in bath, dinner on the hob, make the place as hectic/unappealing as possible. Explain to the agent its like this every day at this time perhaps they would be better coming on a weekend. You wont get any more viewings at that time.

    Should say not technically "best" but probably most fun
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 10th Oct 18, 9:09 AM
    • 1,942 Posts
    • 4,313 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    Yes, the only thing they’ve currently done wrong (we haven’t been issued a s21 yet because the landlord doesn’t want a void period and will only give us notice when she’s ready to exchange....), is to not protect our deposit within 30 days.
    Originally posted by Kim.wigley
    I think that's unlikely as any buyer (apart from another LL) will want confirmation of vacant possession (i.e. you've already moved out) before they exchange.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 10th Oct 18, 9:33 AM
    • 10,307 Posts
    • 14,163 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Offer viewings at 13:47-13:58 every 3rd Thursday for 25% off the rent. If they argue increase to 50% off.
    • Okrib
    • By Okrib 10th Oct 18, 9:49 AM
    • 164 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    Okrib
    Why is everyone so against the landlord? It's their property, and if they want to sell it they should be able to.

    Trying to find ways to get round this by a form being incorrect is wrong in my opinion. How would the OP feel if their tenants did the same to them when they want to buy a house and need to sell theirs?

    I don't envy landlords having to deal with people who are effectively looking to game the system to find ways to delay them doing what they want with property they own.

    You had planned on being there for 6 months. The landlord might originally have wanted someone to make a longer commitment to stay, but took you in on that basis. You both agreed to this. You were open about the fact it was probably only going to be for 6 months. Had you found a place to buy you would have happily served him notice to leave, meaning he had no income. Presumably you would have served notice on your tenants (thus potentially upsetting their plans if they wanted to stay longer?).
    • Okrib
    • By Okrib 10th Oct 18, 9:54 AM
    • 164 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    Okrib
    Best way to deal with viewings at that time is scatter childrens clothes everywhere, have kids in bath, dinner on the hob, make the place as hectic/unappealing as possible. Explain to the agent its like this every day at this time perhaps they would be better coming on a weekend. You wont get any more viewings at that time.

    Should say not technically "best" but probably most fun
    Originally posted by wesleyad
    I'm sure the OP would feel the same way about the tenants in their house refusing to allow viewings which would stop them being able to buy the house they wanted?

    Or everyone could just be grown up about it. Say what times are / are not acceptable and ask any viewings to happen around those.

    I find this attitude particularly surprising when the OP is presumably at some point going to need to have access from their tenants for viewings and evict them to create vacant possession for their sale to go through during their house buying process!
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 10th Oct 18, 10:03 AM
    • 29,824 Posts
    • 18,247 Thanks
    xylophone
    I am aware I’m being awkward - I’m pretty miffed that they’re wanting to turf us out of our home with as little warning as possible
    I don't suppose you'll appreciate your own tenants being just as awkward?

    Why not explain to your landlord that the time is not convenient and ask for one that is?
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 10th Oct 18, 10:11 AM
    • 24,280 Posts
    • 12,716 Thanks
    lisyloo
    Why not explain to your landlord that the time is not convenient and ask for one that is?

    Thank goodness for some sensible advice.
    Also I would advise them that your dog needs to be accompanied (so they aren't tempted to come round when you aren't there).
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Oct 18, 10:17 AM
    • 13,750 Posts
    • 19,905 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Who knows how long it will take to find another property to buy and then complete the sale? Find somewhere else to rent and serve your own notice. You will probably have much less overlap between renting and owning if you start a new 6 month AST in November.

    As for the viewing, just tell the agent it is not a convenient time and you haven't received the required notice on this occasion.
    • lookstraightahead
    • By lookstraightahead 10th Oct 18, 10:34 AM
    • 1,181 Posts
    • 1,034 Thanks
    lookstraightahead
    Why is everyone so against the landlord? It's their property, and if they want to sell it they should be able to.

    Trying to find ways to get round this by a form being incorrect is wrong in my opinion. How would the OP feel if their tenants did the same to them when they want to buy a house and need to sell theirs?

    I don't envy landlords having to deal with people who are effectively looking to game the system to find ways to delay them doing what they want with property they own.

    You had planned on being there for 6 months. The landlord might originally have wanted someone to make a longer commitment to stay, but took you in on that basis. You both agreed to this. You were open about the fact it was probably only going to be for 6 months. Had you found a place to buy you would have happily served him notice to leave, meaning he had no income. Presumably you would have served notice on your tenants (thus potentially upsetting their plans if they wanted to stay longer?).
    Originally posted by Okrib
    I don't think anyone is against the landlord selling the house, I think they are against the landlord breaking the agreement, treating the tenants like second class citizens, and completely disregarding the tenants rights to peace. The tenants are paying rent to use the house as THEIR home. The landlord isn't doing them a favour. Would you let strangers in your house without any notice?
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