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  • FIRST POST
    • emigre
    • By emigre 26th May 19, 7:55 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    emigre
    Contactless or Oyster monthly ticket?
    • #1
    • 26th May 19, 7:55 PM
    Contactless or Oyster monthly ticket? 26th May 19 at 7:55 PM
    I could do some advice here. I currently use a monthly ticket costing me £194 a month to travel within zones 1-4 for my commute. I also like to pop into the museums in London on a Friday and go into the town centre to pick up my groceries on the weekend via the bus. When I'm off, I like to bum around the sights of London and some shopping. I've been doing this for a few years, I haven't thought too much about the individual cost per trip.

    I'll be undergoing an office move where there's less space so I will be working from home twice a week. Because of this, I'm trying to work the economic way forward. On days where I end up bumming around the city, I can take advantage of the daily cap (£10.10).

    My thinking is I go contactless and just PAYG, I'll end up saving money. I'll still be travelling within zones 1-4 so working to the cap my commute to work will cost £30.30, put another couple of quid for any bus fates and my commute should cost £35 a week and my monthly travel cost should now be £140 a month and give me a decent saving.

    I'll be interested in other's thoughts if they've been in a similar situation of working out new travel costs.
Page 1
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 27th May 19, 4:20 AM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #2
    • 27th May 19, 4:20 AM
    • #2
    • 27th May 19, 4:20 AM
    If using the tube I’d ALWAYS recommend using an Oyster.... giving TFL direct access to your bank account via contactless is just plain stupid.

    As a point of interest to prove what a rip-off abusive monopoly TFL is..... in March I loaded an all zones Paris TravelCard onto my Navigo and got change from £65. Yet your 1-4 London TravelCard cost just shy of £200. Rip-off, rip-off..... RIP-OFF!!!
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 27th May 19, 9:51 AM
    • 9,833 Posts
    • 8,883 Thanks
    Andy L
    • #3
    • 27th May 19, 9:51 AM
    • #3
    • 27th May 19, 9:51 AM
    If using the tube I’d ALWAYS recommend using an Oyster.... giving TFL direct access to your bank account via contactless is just plain stupid.

    As a point of interest to prove what a rip-off abusive monopoly TFL is..... in March I loaded an all zones Paris TravelCard onto my Navigo and got change from £65. Yet your 1-4 London TravelCard cost just shy of £200. Rip-off, rip-off..... RIP-OFF!!!
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    ISTR that the whole of the Paris Metro only about the same size as zones 1-3 in London so it's something of an orange & apples comparison between them. AIUI the metro also gets a higher level of taxpayer subsidy than TfL
    Last edited by Andy L; 27-05-2019 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Fat finger typing
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 27th May 19, 11:56 AM
    • 20,165 Posts
    • 46,717 Thanks
    peachyprice
    • #4
    • 27th May 19, 11:56 AM
    • #4
    • 27th May 19, 11:56 AM
    If using the tube I’d ALWAYS recommend using an Oyster.... giving TFL direct access to your bank account via contactless is just plain stupid.

    As a point of interest to prove what a rip-off abusive monopoly TFL is..... in March I loaded an all zones Paris TravelCard onto my Navigo and got change from £65. Yet your 1-4 London TravelCard cost just shy of £200. Rip-off, rip-off..... RIP-OFF!!!
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    You do know that the Paris Metro is subsidised by their government and London is one of the only major cities that isn't, yes?
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 27th May 19, 3:27 PM
    • 2,674 Posts
    • 2,312 Thanks
    giraffe69
    • #5
    • 27th May 19, 3:27 PM
    • #5
    • 27th May 19, 3:27 PM
    If using the tube I’d ALWAYS recommend using an Oyster.... giving TFL direct access to your bank account via contactless is just plain stupid.
    Are TfL any more dangerous to use contactless with than say, Starbucks, WH Smith, Boots etc? Your tin hat and obsession with the evils of TfL are showing and not for the first time.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 27th May 19, 5:07 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #6
    • 27th May 19, 5:07 PM
    • #6
    • 27th May 19, 5:07 PM
    Are TfL any more dangerous to use contactless with than say, Starbucks, WH Smith, Boots etc?
    Originally posted by giraffe69
    Yes....
    TFL are making £100’s of Millions from incomplete journeys..... consumer groups are complaining as are MP’s at the industrial scale of this TFL cash cow. “Between 2011 and 2015, TfL had gross revenue of £349m from incomplete pay-as-you-go journeys, but paid £72m in refunds.”

    I’ve not personally ever been over charged using contactless at any of the places you mention above nor have I heard anyone else being over charged either.

    I’d be happy to see any evidence that shows any company(s) other than TFL over charging on contactless.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 27th May 19, 5:21 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #7
    • 27th May 19, 5:21 PM
    • #7
    • 27th May 19, 5:21 PM
    You do know that the Paris Metro is subsidised by their government and London is one of the only major cities that isn't, yes?
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Yes, your correct but this is the FIRST year that there is no direct Govt. subsidies. RATP the Paris equivalent of TFL received Govt. subsidies providing 20.7% of its 2018 income which makes you wonder my TFL fares are ~300% higher.

    A Treasury spokesperson said: 'London has received more than £10bn in government transport funding since 2010”

    ..... are you claiming that the below isn’t a subsidy?

    'Transport for London will now receive more than £800m per year from its new powers to retain business rates’

    While shops & business go to the wall in large part due to horrendous business rates it seems it’s not only commuters that TFL is shafting!

    Jamie Oliver & Philip Green have both said business rates were a key factor in going bust or shutting numerous shops.
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 27th May 19, 5:32 PM
    • 20,165 Posts
    • 46,717 Thanks
    peachyprice
    • #8
    • 27th May 19, 5:32 PM
    • #8
    • 27th May 19, 5:32 PM
    Yes....
    TFL are making £100’s of Millions from incomplete journeys..... consumer groups are complaining as are MP’s at the industrial scale of this TFL cash cow. “Between 2011 and 2015, TfL had gross revenue of £349m from incomplete pay-as-you-go journeys, but paid £72m in refunds.”

    I’ve not personally ever been over charged using contactless at any of the places you mention above nor have I heard anyone else being over charged either.

    I’d be happy to see any evidence that shows any company(s) other than TFL over charging on contactless.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Incomplete journeys don't happen all by themselves. They happen when people either don't tap in, don't tap out, suffer card clash, use a different card or card/phone combo to touch in and out, run out of charge on their phone. See the pattern there?
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 27th May 19, 5:36 PM
    • 20,165 Posts
    • 46,717 Thanks
    peachyprice
    • #9
    • 27th May 19, 5:36 PM
    • #9
    • 27th May 19, 5:36 PM
    Yes, your correct but this is the FIRST year that there is no direct Govt. subsidies. RATP the Paris equivalent of TFL received Govt. subsidies providing 20.7% of its 2018 income which makes you wonder my TFL fares are ~300% higher.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Yes, this is the first year they have recieved xero subsidy, it's been incrementally reduced over the last 5 years

    A Treasury spokesperson said: 'London has received more than £10bn in government transport funding since 2010”


    ..... are you claiming that the below isn’t a subsidy?

    'Transport for London will now receive more than £800m per year from its new powers to retain business rates’
    None of which is going to London Underground. Transport funding covers a large range of services

    While shops & business go to the wall in large part due to horrendous business rates it seems it’s not only commuters that TFL is shafting!

    Jamie Oliver & Philip Green have both said business rates were a key factor in going bust or shutting numerous shops.
    And rebates are availabel to all sorts of businesses.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 27th May 19, 5:36 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    ISTR that the whole of the Paris Metro only about the same size as zones 1-3 in London so it's something of an orange & apples comparison between them.
    Originally posted by Andy L
    Depends on how you define size.... The Paris Metro has more lines, more stations, double the number of employees and is the second busiest in Europe after.... Moscow??? If you only use the total length of the lines then yes TFL is longer.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 27th May 19, 5:51 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    Incomplete journeys don't happen all by themselves. They happen when people either don't tap in, don't tap out, suffer card clash, use a different card or card/phone combo to touch in and out, run out of charge on their phone. See the pattern there?
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Woot woot, spoken like a true TFL apologists. Yes I do see a pattern and the pattern is...... “it’s NEVER EVER! TFL’s fault” because unlike there train signalling the barriers are 100% accurate 100% of the time.

    I used to use AndroidPay that gives a record of touching in and out on its app. Despite this TFL claimed I’d not touched out so charged a max cash fare. Once I told the refundline guy I had touch in out receipts he tried to claim that Google we’re trying to defraud TFL.

    TFL has no intention of sorting this out because as I said it’s such a huge cash cow.
    • rach_k
    • By rach_k 27th May 19, 7:56 PM
    • 1,461 Posts
    • 2,540 Thanks
    rach_k
    Anybody with an ounce of common sense will check their online account regularly, as you would when using your card anywhere else, and be able to fix any problems from there. I've never had a correction refused, whether it was my fault (I forgot to tap out) or possibly theirs (I thought I did tap out) or definitely theirs (the machine wasn't working).

    OP, my husband recently did a similar thing - going from a travelcard to using contactless as now working more from home. I'd definitely give it a go. Make sure all of the cards you might use are added to your account (but use the same card for the whole day) so can easily see everything, then keep an eye on it for a couple of months to make sure you're getting the best value.
    Last edited by rach_k; 27-05-2019 at 9:48 PM. Reason: Clarity
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 27th May 19, 9:33 PM
    • 2,674 Posts
    • 2,312 Thanks
    giraffe69
    Whenever I've had an incomplete fare it has
    a. been my fault
    b. been corrected without problem

    Your anti tfl stance makes you lose any objectivity or sense.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 28th May 19, 12:02 PM
    • 24,286 Posts
    • 12,717 Thanks
    lisyloo
    I’ve always had any issues corrected.
    Sometimes it’s been their fault and sometimes mine, but not had any issue.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 29th May 19, 8:45 AM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    ..... because the evidence is on my side.
    Using TFL's own figures shows that an unbelievably shocking 5% of journeys generate TFL a maximum cash fare. To put that into actual figures there are about 125 million journeys every 3 months. Its simply not credible to believe that this is purely down to user error. The Telegraph newspaper put this to TFL.... " So what do the TfL chiefs have to say? Not much really". Completely understandable as from TFL's perspective as its a cash cow worth £100's millions.

    For those that are gushing about how wonderful TFL are....
    "TfL won’t pay out if you have already claimed three maximum fare refunds in the same calendar month"
    So even if it's TFL's fault they won't refund you. What other company could get away with that?
    Last edited by Mr_Singleton; 29-05-2019 at 8:54 AM.
    • martindow
    • By martindow 30th May 19, 12:17 PM
    • 8,165 Posts
    • 4,742 Thanks
    martindow
    I could do some advice here. I currently use a monthly ticket costing me £194 a month to travel within zones 1-4 for my commute. I also like to pop into the museums in London on a Friday and go into the town centre to pick up my groceries on the weekend via the bus. When I'm off, I like to bum around the sights of London and some shopping. I've been doing this for a few years, I haven't thought too much about the individual cost per trip.

    I'll be undergoing an office move where there's less space so I will be working from home twice a week. Because of this, I'm trying to work the economic way forward. On days where I end up bumming around the city, I can take advantage of the daily cap (£10.10).

    My thinking is I go contactless and just PAYG, I'll end up saving money. I'll still be travelling within zones 1-4 so working to the cap my commute to work will cost £30.30, put another couple of quid for any bus fates and my commute should cost £35 a week and my monthly travel cost should now be £140 a month and give me a decent saving.

    I'll be interested in other's thoughts if they've been in a similar situation of working out new travel costs.
    Originally posted by emigre
    I'm quoting the OP as I'm sure emigre would like an answer to their question. This thread seems to have got a bit lost ...
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 30th May 19, 12:26 PM
    • 9,833 Posts
    • 8,883 Thanks
    Andy L
    ..... because the evidence is on my side.
    Using TFL's own figures shows that an unbelievably shocking 5% of journeys generate TFL a maximum cash fare.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    is that 5% fail the tap out & thus default to the capping limit or that 5% of journeys reach the capping limit?
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 30th May 19, 5:19 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    is that 5% fail the tap out & thus default to the capping limit or that 5% of journeys reach the capping limit?
    Originally posted by Andy L
    5% of journeys that require a start and finish generate TFL an incomplete fare penalty. So if the barriers are faulty or there’s a electric blackout TFL will automatically charge you a maximum cash fare. TFL is quite happy to let you request a refund...
    but only 3 tines a month.

    If you’ve got nothing better to do with your life you can check your account every day and if you do find a max cash fare due to a faulty barrier then you’ve got to wait 48 hours to ring up the “help”line....then wait 20 minutes for an advisor, pray that your asking less than 3 times for a refund in a month and then you might get the money you should never have been taken, back. Again TFL gets to pocket around 50% of these max cash fares equating to £100’s of millions.

    There is no cap when it comes to maximum cash fares so technically you could pay TFL £100+ in a day.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 30th May 19, 5:26 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 2,315 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    I'm quoting the OP as I'm sure emigre would like an answer to their question. This thread seems to have got a bit lost ...
    Originally posted by martindow
    Bit hard to offer any specific advice as there’s not enough info.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 31st May 19, 10:53 AM
    • 24,286 Posts
    • 12,717 Thanks
    lisyloo
    5% of journeys that require a start and finish generate TFL an incomplete fare penalty. So if the barriers are faulty or there’s a electric blackout TFL will automatically charge you a maximum cash fare. TFL is quite happy to let you request a refund...
    but only 3 tines a month.

    If you’ve got nothing better to do with your life you can check your account every day and if you do find a max cash fare due to a faulty barrier then you’ve got to wait 48 hours to ring up the “help”line....then wait 20 minutes for an advisor, pray that your asking less than 3 times for a refund in a month and then you might get the money you should never have been taken, back. Again TFL gets to pocket around 50% of these max cash fares equating to £100’s of millions.

    There is no cap when it comes to maximum cash fares so technically you could pay TFL £100+ in a day.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    If tfl know about an issue they will fix the billing.

    I check my credit card statements, if something was amiss I’d notice.
    Surely it’s mse to check your statements.

    You don’t have to sit on the phone. You do it online and it takes about 2 mins whenever it suits you.

    If people don’t bother to check their post especially if they KNoW there was an issue, then whose fault is that??
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