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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 6th Jul 11, 4:19 PM
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    Former MSE Helen
    MSE News: New rules could slash data roaming costs abroad
    • #1
    • 6th Jul 11, 4:19 PM
    MSE News: New rules could slash data roaming costs abroad 6th Jul 11 at 4:19 PM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "Mobile operators could be forced to cut data roaming costs under new EU proposals"

Page 1
    • gjchester
    • By gjchester 6th Jul 11, 7:46 PM
    • 5,603 Posts
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    gjchester
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 11, 7:46 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 11, 7:46 PM
    No.

    Call and data costs may be cut but something else will rise to counter it. Hardly "Consumer victory"
    • zenmaster
    • By zenmaster 6th Jul 11, 9:45 PM
    • 3,052 Posts
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    zenmaster
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 11, 9:45 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 11, 9:45 PM
    Agreed. It's part of the business model.

    At some point it will become unsustainable.

    And why has the EU got such a bee in it's bonnet about mobile rates? They should take a look at beer - 7 pint in some parts of France!
  • coolesticeking
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 11, 6:39 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 11, 6:39 AM
    YAY! Looks like calls in our home country will go up to compensate this yet again.. Why do we have to keep 'cutting' costs when most people only go abroad for one or two weeks of the year tops? The ones who go for longer or more journeys are those on business and most of them have phones paid by the company.

    I understanding needing a mobile for a possible emergency or sending a quick 'All is fine' text but why should we keep paying more in the UK because of this?

    Can't people leave them off and enjoy what they pay for? A Holiday!
    David
    1 of debt is too much for me!
    • Roger1
    • By Roger1 7th Jul 11, 8:20 AM
    • 1,457 Posts
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    Roger1
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 11, 8:20 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 11, 8:20 AM
    So just three years to wait unless the mobile operators complain.

    I use mobile internet with my laptop. Most of the discussion seems to refer to handheld devices. I hope I will benefit from the changes too.
    ... most people only go abroad for one or two weeks of the year tops? The ones who go for longer or more journeys are those on business and most of them have phones paid by the company.
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    Really? That's a sweeping generalisation which may apply to you but not necessarily to 'most people'. I know I spend more than 'one or two weeks of the year tops' outside the UK.
  • coolesticeking
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 11, 8:48 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 11, 8:48 AM
    So just three years to wait unless the mobile operators complain.

    I use mobile internet with my laptop. Most of the discussion seems to refer to handheld devices. I hope I will benefit from the changes too.Really? That's a sweeping generalisation which may apply to you but not necessarily to 'most people'. I know I spend more than 'one or two weeks of the year tops' outside the UK.
    Originally posted by Roger1
    Well if that's the case then buy a local SIM card which would still no doubt be cheaper even when these caps come in place.
    David
    1 of debt is too much for me!
    • Roger1
    • By Roger1 7th Jul 11, 9:07 AM
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    Roger1
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 11, 9:07 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 11, 9:07 AM
    Well if that's the case then buy a local SIM card which would still no doubt be cheaper even when these caps come in place.
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    Unless you know something I don't, that's another generalisation.

    I know from experience that buying a local SIM for mobile internet with my laptop is not just a case of buying a SIM and switching on. Besides, when I have looked at buying local SIMs for my laptop, they have been expensive and I doubt they would be affected by the EU proposals. In any case, for irregular use, it's a non-starter compared with just switching on my computer using my own contract.

    I can't wait for the EU proposals to take effect (if they apply to laptop use), except I have to wait until at least 2014, it seems.
    • foxtrot_mike
    • By foxtrot_mike 7th Jul 11, 10:09 AM
    • 100 Posts
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    foxtrot_mike
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 11, 10:09 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 11, 10:09 AM
    Theres one advantage perhaps of the decrease in roaming costs and the knock on effect of the mobile phone operators increasing local call costs in that they will never be able to make the cost of the local calls any greater than roaming calls.

    But I think that's what the EU wants
    • gjchester
    • By gjchester 7th Jul 11, 10:10 AM
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    gjchester
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 11, 10:10 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 11, 10:10 AM
    I can't wait for the EU proposals to take effect (if they apply to laptop use), except I have to wait until at least 2014, it seems.
    Originally posted by Roger1
    No doubt it will make data use cheaper in europe, but something else will go up.

    Look at this thread
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3324318

    The termination fee was forced down by the regulators and PAYG cost went up.

    The EU acted to regualte call and text costs in Europe last year and suddenly mobile contracts went form "fair use" data to a set amount.

    Who do the EU expect to come in? There are a few big operators, Vodafone, Deutche Telecom, French Telecom, Telifonica and KPN, and very few others, as they all own stakes in each other.

    *EVERY* time the regulator forces a price down something else goes up, think of it like a squeezed balloon, squize it in one place and another will inflate. Profits need to be made and shareholders kept happy.
    • robbob700
    • By robbob700 7th Jul 11, 12:19 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    robbob700
    Theres one advantage perhaps of the decrease in roaming costs and the knock on effect of the mobile phone operators increasing local call costs in that they will never be able to make the cost of the local calls any greater than roaming calls.

    But I think that's what the EU wants
    Originally posted by foxtrot_mike
    This doesn't seem to be true. Virgin mobile already charge me more for texts withn the UK than from the EU and from later in July this will apply to calls as well (up to 40p a minute). I am assuming the EU ruling does not apply to local calls.
    • interbear
    • By interbear 7th Jul 11, 12:28 PM
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    interbear
    I'm with the 3 network and see that they have regularly been doing PR advocating that data roaming charges be reduced.

    Doesn't stop them charging 1.28 per MB in the EU though........

    I want to use my smartphone for web browsing and social media when abroad. But it is too costly to do so at the moment, the premium on data roaming overseas is outrageous. So I'm glad to see the EU taking some action on it but why does it have to take so long?
    • NFH
    • By NFH 7th Jul 11, 5:53 PM
    • 4,329 Posts
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    NFH
    Lots of news articles have been published on this, all of which are based on the original press release from the European Commission.

    YAY! Looks like calls in our home country will go up to compensate this yet again..
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    Why should domestic call charges go up? The cost of roaming calls is similar to the cost of domestic calls, but the price charged to the customer is without justification much higher for roaming calls. If artificially high roaming charges are currently subsidising low domestic charges (which is unlikely), then it would be justified for domestic charges go up as a result of the loss of an inappropriate subsidy.
  • ampletime
    If the EU keeps pushing the networks around kiss goodbye to free handsets on any tariff. Don't be shocked to see the US model come in over here too, you'll be paying for incoming calls too.

    I never understand when people complain about data rates when you can use WIFI and some have no idea how much it costs to run a mobile network.
    • NFH
    • By NFH 7th Jul 11, 8:44 PM
    • 4,329 Posts
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    NFH
    If the EU keeps pushing the networks around kiss goodbye to free handsets on any tariff. Don't be shocked to see the US model come in over here too, you'll be paying for incoming calls too.
    Originally posted by ampletime
    Can you explain the economics of that? What you are suggesting is not a logical consequence of EU regulation on roaming charges.

    I never understand when people complain about data rates when you can use WIFI and some have no idea how much it costs to run a mobile network.
    Originally posted by ampletime
    You can't use wifi unless you're lucky enough to find a wireless network within range that's free to use. With regard to how much it costs to run a mobile network, when you're roaming, your phone is using the same technology as it does on your home network. The costs of operating the foreign network are roughly the same as your home network, so why should the charges be higher?
  • 2sides2everystory
    With regard to how much it costs to run a mobile network, when you're roaming, your phone is using the same technology as it does on your home network. The costs of operating the foreign network are roughly the same as your home network, so why should the charges be higher?
    Originally posted by NFH
    A very good point which we are all dulled to because of years of hearing the favorite excuse of the billing company that of course it is nothing to do with your home network - they are merely passing on the costs levied by the foreign network!

    I think mobile phone technology is the best example of governments colluding with a cartel - the auctions (of the exclusive rights to the mobile radio frequencies they use) were even called auctions to throw us of the scent. Essentially our exchequers colluded with the mobile companies and turned them into tax collectors. The mobile companies' banks lent the government a huge lump of tax in advance and then had a free rein to charge what they liked to recoup it. The annual sop of "new rules" is laughable.
  • coolesticeking
    Unless you are making a call to the country you are visiting, everything else is bounced back to the UK for onward forwarding. Don't people understand that sometimes this has to go over satellite links and this is not cheap - ask your operator how much a minute these costs (6 upwards).

    EU puts caps in place, cost still has to be met so these have to be reclaimed somehow so that's by putting the prices up within the UK.

    Problems these days, people want everything for free or next to nothing...

    You would not want to be undercharged - would you? A business is that, a business and not a charity... It would not around for long if it did not make any money.

    I thought roaming rates were fine anyways, I go away to enjoy and relax.. I can have a good chin wag and catch up when I get back...

    I think some people really should get a life - unless it's for business use.
    David
    1 of debt is too much for me!
    • redux
    • By redux 8th Jul 11, 11:43 AM
    • 19,290 Posts
    • 26,442 Thanks
    redux
    When I first got a mobile phone, on Orange several years ago, the rates per minute in some countries abroad were pretty similar to the rates here, at around 30 pence a minute.

    In between then and now, local rates have fallen a lot, and for a while roaming rates increased.
  • 2sides2everystory
    Unless you are making a call to the country you are visiting, everything else is bounced back to the UK for onward forwarding. Don't people understand that sometimes this has to go over satellite links and this is not cheap - ask your operator how much a minute these costs (6 upwards).
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    Could you give us a bit more detail? I don't understand why if I can get given a PAYG SIM at Stansted Airport which I can top up with 15 and then, apart from 15 worth of credit I can use up at normal O2 PAYG rates in the UK, I get 100 International minutes for no extra charge. Even if I only use the International minutes (at per second billing I might add) that would mean I am paying only 15p per minute via whatever means it gets to wherever I want to call?

    So what's all this bouncing and satellite costs 6 a minute stuff??

    Edit:- And here's another example ... http://threestore.three.co.uk/plandetails.aspx?tariffid=3396 ... 3000 international minutes for 15!
    Last edited by 2sides2everystory; 08-07-2011 at 2:17 PM.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 8th Jul 11, 5:18 PM
    • 14,179 Posts
    • 12,312 Thanks
    zagfles
    Unless you are making a call to the country you are visiting, everything else is bounced back to the UK for onward forwarding. Don't people understand that sometimes this has to go over satellite links and this is not cheap - ask your operator how much a minute these costs (6 upwards)
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    Sorry that's rubbish - the additional expense is no more than a landline international call compared to national, look at how cheap it is to call the US or even Australia (1p/min with telestunt). International routing to first world countries is dirt cheap these days. You can Skype to Australia and New Zealand (with video) for free.
    • NFH
    • By NFH 8th Jul 11, 5:18 PM
    • 4,329 Posts
    • 1,415 Thanks
    NFH
    Unless you are making a call to the country you are visiting, everything else is bounced back to the UK for onward forwarding. Don't people understand that sometimes this has to go over satellite links and this is not cheap - ask your operator how much a minute these costs (6 upwards).
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    Not true. The only roaming calls routed via the UK are incoming calls to your UK number. All outgoing calls go straight from the visited country to the call's destination, for which the visited network subsequently bills your home network. And international calls cost peanuts anyway, unless terminating in a country with high termination charges (which excludes most of the developed world).

    EU puts caps in place, cost still has to be met so these have to be reclaimed somehow so that's by putting the prices up within the UK.
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    How can this cause prices within the UK to increase? The capped price that the UK networks charge their customers for EU roaming covers their costs, because their wholesale costs are likewise capped, and in such a way to still allow a significant profit margin.

    I thought roaming rates were fine anyways, I go away to enjoy and relax.. I can have a good chin wag and catch up when I get back...

    I think some people really should get a life - unless it's for business use.
    Originally posted by coolesticeking
    What a thoroughly naive and insular approach. Some people travel to other parts of the EU so regularly that they view their location as irrelevant to their need to continue communicating. Travel can be for plenty of reasons, such as work (i.e. different from business), business, shopping, visiting friends and relatives, and holidays. Consider also the millions of people in the EU who live in border regions (including parts of the UK) where they cross into a neighbouring country on a daily basis. Going away "to enjoy and relax" is not what it's all about and people still need to communicate without paying punitive prices for doing so.
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