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Appeal can't be looked at until driver is named

135

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,448 Forumite
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    Reply to both the BPA and DVLA again, reiterating this and attaching the proof:
    So, the BPA is asking for the correspondence that shows a violation of the code of practice. I assume it is this specific part;

    "if we have not been informed of the drivers details within seven days we will not accept your appeal and pursue you for the full charge"

    State that the words: ''we will not accept your appeal'' without the driver's details, is misleading at best and in no way suggests that they will consider the appeal and issue a POPLA code, which it should make clear. At the moment, you are still completely in the dark as to whether this AOS member is considering the keeper's appeal at all.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • No NTK received as of today, and the deadline was yesterday. I sent myself a letter to my old address on Thursday, 1st class, and it arrived at my new address today after being redirected.

    So I assume they have no standing whatsoever now, they don't know who was driving, and, can't pursue the keeper?

    That said; they seem dodgy already so can they claim they sent it, and it was just lost in the post?
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
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    No NTK received as of today, and the deadline was yesterday. I sent myself a letter to my old address on Thursday, 1st class, and it arrived at my new address today after being redirected.

    So I assume they have no standing whatsoever now, they don't know who was driving, and, can't pursue the keeper?

    That said; they seem dodgy already so can they claim they sent it, and it was just lost in the post?

    For the sake of postal delays, wait until tuesday
  • Post has arrived... and... no NtK! :D

    BPA also replied;

    Thank you for your reply.

    When a Notice to Driver is affixed to a vehicle, the driver of the vehicle has 28 days to pay or appeal the Charge. At this stage, the operator may request the name and serviceable address for the driver should an appeal be received not supplying this information in the first instance.

    If no appeal (containing a name and serviceable address for the driver) or payment is received by the operator within 28 days, the operator may request the vehicle Keeper details from the DVLA, and issue a Notice to Keeper.

    As per the above, we are unable to advise that there has been a breach of the Code in this instance and as such we are unfortunately unable to assist you further.


    :(
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,448 Forumite
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    edited 5 September 2017 at 5:40PM
    Wait till this Thursday, then if no rejection letter/POPLA code has arrived, then their 35 days is up and so I would then reply to the BPA:



    Dear Emma-Louise/Thomas/Joanne (or whoever fobbed you off)!

    Thankyou for your reply, which - typically, going by other BPA replies to complaints about private parking firms, that are in the public domain recently - fails to address the issue and misleads me with erroneous excuses. The BPA should be ashamed of the industry you prop up, who have been getting steadily worse and more aggressive, since clamping was banned, not better.

    Anyway, regarding my formal complaint, this matter is NOT resolved.

    To reiterate, your AOS member has refused to entertain an appeal from the keeper AT ALL and the requisite 35 days has now passed for them to send me a POPLA code. Now please take the action you should have done earlier, and kindly stop suggesting that an AOS member can actually 'refuse to accept' (i.e. the implication being, refuse to consider at all) a keeper's appeal.

    I remind you that on 16/8/17 their email said quite rudely, that they:

    "cannot accept the appeal sent in as the driver's identity was not provided".

    The letter then states, in bold (angrily and unprofessionally), "According to BPA, section 9.2, the driver must USE THE APPEALS PROCEDURES IN AN HONEST WAY".

    How dare they, and how dare you support this unprofessional conduct?

    I have copied in Mr Dunford at the DVLA, who along with your colleague Steve Clark, has recently ordered an investigation regarding another case where an AOS member has tried to pretend a keeper cannot appeal. You may not have been in the BPA in 2012 when the POFA came in but Mr Clark was, and is aware that 'keeper liability' only came into play (well after 1st October 2012) once the Government was satisfied that an independent appeals system for keepers was in place.

    AOS members were also subsequently reminded by Mr Clark and Mr Dunford in a joint communication, that appeal responses were not allowed to say that an appeal depends upon the driver being named. Such misinformation was identified in 2013 as a 'serious breach' of the Code of Practice. Nothing has changed.

    You are wrong to add the bit shown in brackets; it seems that you have been listening to the wrong side for too long, or the BPA team requires refresher training on this specific point. It is embarrassing that such erroneous replies as this are being sent to the general public by the BPA:

    ''If no appeal (containing a name and serviceable address for the driver) or payment is received by the operator within 28 days, the operator may request the vehicle Keeper details from the DVLA, and issue a Notice to Keeper.''

    You are incorrect and misleading in your reply.

    This is the same ''significant breach'' as it always was, in any case where an AOS member said in 2012, or in 2017, that considering an appeal was dependent upon the driver being named. That was not allowed then, and is not allowed now.

    Kindly open an investigation into the matter - Mr Clark and Mr Dunford are now copied in.

    yours,

    you


    Emails to copy in this time:

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    and

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    and

    copy in your MP, or forward a copy of the email trail and explain the issue!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
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  • Thank you again for all your replies. No notice to keeper has been received.

    I telephoned P4 Parking today, using the 01 number from say no to 0870. I spoke to control operator 993 - she was absolutely rude and disgusting and has made me genuinely angry. I will be taking this so far now I will not stop until P4 Parking is shut down.

    The lady has said P4 Parking will not issue a notice to the keeper - my details will be passed to a debt collection company who will issue the notice to the keeper at a later date. What do I need to do now? I will re submit a complaint to the DVLA about a data protection breach.

    Because I have not received the NtK, what do I need to do? I do not want to hang around waiting for something to happen. I want to take P4 Parking to court for everything they have.

    I have also reiterated to BPA my complaint and await a response.
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
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    edited 12 September 2017 at 2:43PM
    Thank you again for all your replies. No notice to keeper has been received.

    I telephoned P4 Parking today, using the 01 number from say no to 0870. I spoke to control operator 993 - she was absolutely rude and disgusting and has made me genuinely angry. I will be taking this so far now I will not stop until P4 Parking is shut down.

    The lady has said P4 Parking will not issue a notice to the keeper - my details will be passed to a debt collection company who will issue the notice to the keeper at a later date. What do I need to do now? I will re submit a complaint to the DVLA about a data protection breach.

    Because I have not received the NtK, what do I need to do? I do not want to hang around waiting for something to happen. I want to take P4 Parking to court for everything they have.

    I have also reiterated to BPA my complaint and await a response.

    Sounds like you have been talking to the "tea girl" who has
    no knowledge whatsoever.
    What a terrible liability this tea girl is for P4
    But don't sack her P4, the more idiots around the better

    Debt Collectors don't issue NtK's they just waste their time
    sending stupid scary letters to extort money

    For this rubbish, the BPA and the DVLA must sanction them
    as they are not fit for purpose and a danger to the motorist
  • Well I'm just so angry at them after that phone call. I phoned them back again - this time I recorded the call... . They have said, on record, "that a Notice to Keeper will be sent out soon (so an admission it hasn't been sent within 56 days) and that I really should feel guilty and unhappy about my life and actions as I have broken the law... by parking against the law".

    I am also very much in an email war with the landowner as well now since P4 have passed my details onto another company without my consent. Is this a data protection breach?

    And lastly, I am writing an even stronger worded email to the BPA.

    I vow I am going to take this PPC to court for such a large sum - they will never operate ever again.
  • Grimble
    Grimble Posts: 455 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Put your phone away, may not be evidence in court, did you tell them you are recording the call?
  • safarmuk
    safarmuk Posts: 648 Forumite
    edited 12 September 2017 at 5:38PM
    I am also very much in an email war with the landowner as well now since P4 have passed my details onto another company without my consent. Is this a data protection breach?
    What other company have P4 passed your details onto and for what reason? I am presuming they have your details as you appealed to them as the RK basis the NTD that was left on your car?

    To start a DPA claim the best piece of evidence is to get an upheld complaint from the ICO (this can take anywhere between 1 and 4 months to come through though). But as I said above whether they will uphold the complaint depends on the details.

    Additionally I suspect secret recordings are not admissible in court ...
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