Excess Mileage Charge - Reached Debt Collectors
Comments
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shaun_from_Africa wrote: »I don't know anything about leasing but to me, that would imply that you could write off the vehicle or leave it in such a poor state as to make it basically worthless then providing you had paid off more than 50%, you could simply voluntarily terminate the lease and hand back the car and the lease company would have no comeback against you?
AFAIK condition has always been covered under BVRLA guidelines (https://www.bvrla.co.uk/service/fair-wear-and-tear-guides) whereas mileage has been a moot point (esp if under the total agreed for the contract even if over the pro-rata)
Unfortunately reading examples of others on here and other forums where people have done 6k pa contracts with the intention of 30k pa+ then VT'ing is obviously going to leave the lenders in a challenging situation and exploring all avenues0 -
No you couldn't. The legislation is quite clear that you must hand back the car in a reasonable condition, oh and FYI, it's not leasing it's a PCP (and before you say it, they're not the same thing at all)shaun_from_Africa wrote: »I don't know anything about leasing but to me, that would imply that you could write off the vehicle or leave it in such a poor state as to make it basically worthless then providing you had paid off more than 50%, you could simply voluntarily terminate the lease and hand back the car and the lease company would have no comeback against you?0 -
shaun_from_Africa wrote: »you could simply voluntarily terminate the lease and hand back the car and the lease company would have no comeback against you?
No, not at all, as one of the other terms of VT is that you have an "obligation to take reasonable care of the goods" so in the situation you describe the finance company could perfectly legally charge you for any damage.Every generation blames the one before...
Mike + The Mechanics - The Living Years0 -
AFAIK condition has always been covered under BVRLA guidelines (https://www.bvrla.co.uk/service/fair-wear-and-tear-guides) whereas mileage has been a moot point (esp if under the total agreed for the contract even if over the pro-rata)
Unfortunately reading examples of others on here and other forums where people have done 6k pa contracts with the intention of 30k pa+ then VT'ing is obviously going to leave the lenders in a challenging situation and exploring all avenues
Though there's a lot of anecdotal evidence of the very low mileage included in many contracts being glossed over by the sales staff as unimportant or even being ignored.
In that case there an argument for Mis selling.0 -
MobileSaver wrote: »I disagree. Subsection 2 says:
Crucially, before the agreement is terminated, the finance company do not know whether there is any excess mileage or not so how can they raise any liability/invoice? QED before termination there is no liability.
As pointed out by Nobbie and Joe Horner if the finance house presented, for example, an annual excess mileage bill then that would be owed by the OP as the liability was accrued before termination.
Most telling for me is that AFAIK no finance company has ever taken the excess mileage issue to court for fear of the precedent it would set. (All this assumes the OP did not sign any 'VT pack' or similar in which case all bets would be off...)
Sorry mate but that's nonsense, since when is liability determined by an invoice? And whilst its true there has been no case to set precedent that could be just as telling that any defendant has been advised they have no case and have settled.Nobbie1967 wrote: »Interesting point, I would say that no liability has arisen during the contract for excess mileage unless they present a bill at the end of each year for any mileage over the agreed limit (Maybe they should do this as seems a good way to catch people trying to pull a fast one) Not sure what liabilities this would refer to though, possibly missed payments?
Can only point to joes post, think it's more likely down to wording of contract on how mileage is set pro rata but again can't see any requirement in law for an invoice or bill to deem the point of liability.0 -
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Sorry mate but that's nonsense, since when is liability determined by an invoice?
No, it's not the invoice that determines liability but timing.
If you see the PCP agreement to fruition and buy the car then there is no excess mileage liability. The liability only arises if you terminate the agreement early however at that point the CCA kicks in and you are only liable for anything accrued before termination.
It would not surprise me if this was deliberately worded by the law makers otherwise what would stop the PCP company having any of the following terms:
1) If you VT this agreement then you will pay us a £100 admin fee
2) If you VT this agreement you will pay us a £500 admin fee
3) If you VT this agreement you will pay us the remaining 50% still owed...And whilst its true there has been no case to set precedent that could be just as telling that any defendant has been advised they have no case and have settled.
I am sure that is true in lots of cases because people believe the bullying tactics and cave in. However I know first hand and there is lots of anecdotal evidence here and on legalbeagles that in fact it is the PCP company who cave in when presented with a robust denial of debt.
Similarly if the PCP companies are so confident of their take on this issue then why do they try so hard to get people to sign "VT Packs" with additional T&Cs that are probably outside of the CCA protection?Every generation blames the one before...
Mike + The Mechanics - The Living Years0 -
Still not sure I get the logic of the argument, apart from it simply would not be good PR to pursue a debtor who couldn't afford the contract anyway.
I think there are a lot of posts centered on what people would like to believe rather than any factual legal basis, the termination of the agreement is simply that, not a change of any terms within it and if the signee agrees to a liability for charges over an estimated amount those charge would become due at the moment of termination but liability arose the moment they went over the agreed mileage and section 2 allows for pursuit of liabilities accrued before termination.
And as the car is handed back there is no need for estimation?
If it were me I would want a better argument than has been presented here before risking further penalties.0 -
Still not sure I get the logic of the argument, apart from it simply would not be good PR to pursue a debtor who couldn't afford the contract anyway.
I think there are a lot of posts centered on what people would like to believe rather than any factual legal basis, the termination of the agreement is simply that, not a change of any terms within it and if the signee agrees to a liability for charges over an estimated amount those charge would become due at the moment of termination but liability arose the moment they went over the agreed mileage and section 2 allows for pursuit of liabilities accrued before termination.
And as the car is handed back there is no need for estimation?
If it were me I would want a better argument than has been presented here before risking further penalties.
If as you suggest, liability arises from the moment you go over the pro-rate mileage allowance, then why do no finance companies take it all the way through the courts to set precedent. I can't see it being bad PR, as finance companies have a pretty low profile. The more obvious reason is that they recognise that the liability only arises at the end of the contract term, or when customers sign additional agreement after VT.0 -
Point of order ... such a claim would be a civil claim in the County Court. As such, even if the finance company won it wouldn't set a precedent. (It might be persuasive for other claims in the County Court, but there'd be no precedent ... each claim would need to be heard on its own merits).0
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