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Notice to hirer with no option for appeal
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Apologies, it was an email. I have requested a copy.0
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Chris Marsden at SIP has form for this - he has called me a few times in the past, but I didn't take kindly to his tone on any occasion. He has issued a court claim against my company but withdrew it after my defence statement outlined every failure to comply with POFA.
More and more IPC companies seem to be targeting both hirer and hire company in the hope that one of them will pay up, and they don't really care who.
The leasing company needs to stand it's ground on this, but you may need to prove to them in simple terms why they shouldn't pay. Just hope they don't buckle.<--- Nothing to see here - move along --->0 -
Chris Marsden at SIP has form for this - he has called me a few times in the past, but I didn't take kindly to his tone on any occasion. He has issued a court claim against my company but withdrew it after my defence statement outlined every failure to comply with POFA.
More and more IPC companies seem to be targeting both hirer and hire company in the hope that one of them will pay up, and they don't really care who.
The leasing company needs to stand it's ground on this, but you may need to prove to them in simple terms why they shouldn't pay. Just hope they don't buckle.
I will include this in my reply to the lease company. Hopefully they will see the light.0 -
This is the email from SIP the lease company received today;
On your own admission there are 2 drivers eligible to drive the vehicle, but you supplied us with xxxx!!!8217;s details as she was the only driver. As xxx is refusing to accept liability as the driver and we can not prove who was driving we have no option but to transfer liability back.
To answer your questions:
xxx!!!8217;s details were provided to us as the driver of the vehicle which she is claiming is false information. When we spoke over the phone you mentioned that her domestic partner was also eligible to drive the vehicle.
You supplied us with xxx!!!8217;s details and named her as the driver but she is denying that it was her driving at the time of the 39 contraventions.
Going forward I think what would be best to prevent this type of situation from escalating again would be to include:
The hire agreement being signed by the master Lessee
Include that the master lessee will be liable for all parking charges, fines and notification that the vehicle may incur whilst in the master lessee!!!8217;s possession (include this on the hirer agreement you send with the master lessee!!!8217;s signature).
If required we could send photographic evidence for all 39 outstanding PCN!!!8217;s but you can not clearly see who was driving. Please note from the included screen shot the stages each individual PCN is at and as for a breakdown of cost, we removed the admin charges for 28 days as a goodwill gesture because you emailed saying that you would pay the charges .
Thanks
Lease company emailed me stating they think they are liable as registered keepers citing schedule 4 of POFA, paragraphs 1 to 7. I emailed them back paragraphs 13 and 14. Should there be a legal team looking into this?0 -
From the POFA2012 Schedule 4-Paragraph 2(1) definitions:-
“keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;
The leasing company can prove to the contrary that they, (as the RK), are not the keeper.0 -
we have no option but to transfer liability back.
They cannot 'transfer liability back' from the hirer.
Send that to the DVLA and to your MP and complain that SIP are lying about 'hirer liability' and phoning up or emailing the lease company after the hirer details were supplied, pretending they can 'transfer liability back' (LOL!!).
YOU are the keeper, they've stated it and you confirmed it, so they are out of the equation.
Meanwhile tell the hire firm to read para 13/14 here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
in particular:(2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given!!!8212;
(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and
(c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.
There is NOTHING to say that a lease firm has to name the driver - in fact they cannot, can they, unless they were a witness in the car park?! Naming the hirer/lessee (the real keeper) and complying with the above, discharged their liability in full.
They need to stop being so namby pamby and follow the way StaffsSW handles the rubbish his firm gets. They have discharged liability which means they have no lawful reason to pay the charge because it's not theirs to pay. None of their business now, that situation has moved on to you alone and it's your charge to defend (and these are winnable).
Tell the lease/hire firm to use the legal advice of the BVRLA (assuming they are listed as members) and not pass the buck, cluelessly asking you to give them legal advice on a law that the BVRLA has known about and had time to get used to, for 5 years.
When you complain to your MP show them this thread and the POFA.
SIP appear to be demanding money unlawfully, from a company that cannot in law be held liable after discharging any liability, as they already have done.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
I'm not convinced that what they are doing is compliant with the IPC code of practice, or the DVLA requirements, but I'm also not sure if making a complaint to either of them would achieve anything constructive.
Also which leasing company is it? I know a fair few of them....<--- Nothing to see here - move along --->0 -
I'm not convinced that what they are doing is compliant with the IPC code of practice, or the DVLA requirements, but I'm also not sure if making a complaint to either of them would achieve anything constructive.
Also which leasing company is it? I know a fair few of them....
Tuskerdirect0 -
I will copy your advice and send to the lease company. Hopefully they will see that they are not liable for this.0
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Finally, the lease company stood their ground! They've refused to pay and told PPC that they cannot transfer liability and should deal with me. They referred to PPC's letter to me that stated I was the 'keeper' as agreement of the transfer of liability from them to me and said PCC cannot now turn around and transfer liability to them (lease company). Thank you for your assistance.
While I was sorting this, PPC has sent a 'payment overdue' letter with no reference to the last letter I sent to them.
There is a warning which states that:
'if after the period of 14 days with the day beginning after that on which the notice is given the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specifies in this Notice has not been paid in full, additional charges may be added which you will liable for and the matter may be assessed for transfer to our legal representatives for litigation to be considered.
Another letter states this;
'if after the period of 14 days with the day beginning after that on which the notice is given the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specifies in this Notice has not been paid in full, we may refer this matter to Gladstones Solicitors limited where the balance due will increase to £150 and we will instruct them to recover the full amount via matters but not limited to litigation via the county courts, which may incur further costs which you will be liable for.'
Should I just ignore them?0
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