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  • FIRST POST
    • LouBlue
    • By LouBlue 9th Jun 08, 2:53 PM
    • 53,046Posts
    • 118,963Thanks
    LouBlue
    RBS staff pension
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 08, 2:53 PM
    RBS staff pension 9th Jun 08 at 2:53 PM
    Hi all.

    I am trying to get some up to date info on a frozen 14 year staff pension I have, when I worked for NatWest, many moons ago. The correspondence I have is three years old, says Royal Bank of Scotland Group Pension Fund at the top of the letter and an address in Croydon, but no phone number. Would anyone know of a phone number as I have tried googling but to no avail.

    Many thanks.
    A cloudy day is no match for a sunny disposition

    ~ William Arthur Ward ~
Page 2
    • JerryW
    • By JerryW 14th Jun 13, 12:20 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    JerryW
    I contacted RBS on behalf of my wife, and got the following reply:

    I was unable to locate a pension record based on your details.
    Unfortunately when you left the Group in 1973 the qualifying criteria for a preserved pension was being age 30 and having 10 years service. As you were not age 30 and only had 8 years service, you did not qualify for a pension.

    .. it is pretty much what I expected; but, does anyone know of a way to check this? It does seem a bit harsh.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Jun 13, 3:05 PM
    • 31,597 Posts
    • 19,593 Thanks
    xylophone
    A relative who worked for Natwest confirms the above if that helps at all.
  • lunaging
    Hi! I worked for NatWest from 1960 to 1971 ( in those days for part of these years it was National Provincial) but haven´t received any forms to fill in to access the non-contributory pension scheme. Does anyone have an address to write to them?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 11th Nov 13, 4:40 PM
    • 31,597 Posts
    • 19,593 Thanks
    xylophone
    http://www.rbselect.rbspeople.com/uk/4.2.final-salary-pension-plan.php?loc=package_information
    Group Pension Services
    Group Human Resources,
    The Royal Bank of Scotland Group,
    City Link House,
    4 Addiscombe Road,
    Croydon
    CR9 5PB
    Depot 190
    Helpline
    Telephone number: 0808 100 4242
    Fax number: 0208256 3081
    Try the above?
    • Pollik
    • By Pollik 2nd Jun 14, 11:28 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pollik
    Like many, I have a NatWest pension

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

    independent (dot) co (dot )uk/news/business/news/rbs-could-fail-due-to-100bn-black-hole--with-british-taxpayers-in-line-to-lose-their-entire-45bn-stake-9466823 (dot) html
    - sorry, as a new user, I can't post links

    RBS could fail due to ‘£100bn black hole’ - with British taxpayers in line to lose their entire £45bn stake

    An explosive book says the failure of Gordon Brown and David Cameron to reform the bank after it received a mammoth taxpayers’ bailout leaves it vulnerable
    Tom Harper Author Biography , Nick Kochan


    British taxpayers risk losing their entire £45bn stake in Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) which is in grave danger of failing within 10 years, according to an explosive new book.

    A new study of the disgraced bank, which brought the UK to the brink of financial ruin, reveals RBS still has a £100bn “black hole” in its finances due to “five broad areas of alleged criminality and wrongdoing”.

    They include the mis-selling of financial products such as payment protection insurance, the alleged duping of investors who were persuaded to plough more than £12bn into RBS shares just before the banking crash in 2008, further fallout from the Libor scandal, and current criminal investigations into the manipulation of the £3trn-a-day foreign exchange markets.

    Shredded: Inside RBS, The Bank That Broke Britain, by the financial journalist Ian Fraser, concludes that the governments led by Gordon Brown and David Cameron have “let the people of Britain down” by failing to reform RBS after it received its mammoth bailout under the stewardship of former chief executive Fred “The Shred” Goodwin.

    “The result has been that, at the time of writing, RBS is probably a worse bank than it was under Fred Goodwin,” Fraser said. “If the right moves are now made, RBS could become a great bank again. If they’re not, I doubt it will even exist in 10 years’ time.

    “Whatever happens, it now seems impossible that British taxpayers will ever see a return on their £45.5bn investment in the bank,” he writes in the book.

    RBS is under the spotlight again RBS is under the spotlight again Fraser analyses the bank’s extraordinary largesse under Goodwin, whom, he claims, squandered billions of pounds on overpriced acquisitions, fleets of Mercedes and extravagant buildings and decor.

    The book also claims that Goodwin and his wife, Joyce, avoided tens of thousands of pounds in personal tax liabilities over their repeated use of a controversial £20m private jet bought by RBS in 2002.

    Fraser says the Goodwins’ excessive trips on the Dassault Falcon 900EX executive jet led Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to conclude that it should be taxed as a “benefit in kind”.

    Fraser writes :“To avoid this, ex-insiders claim the bank transferred ownership of the corporate jet from the Royal Bank of Scotland Group to RBS’s Lombard Aviation leasing subsidiary. This gave the impression that the Falcon 900EX was not just a personal plaything and dedicated air taxi for the chief executive, but was chartered out to third parties on a regular basis.”

    The book claims “most senior RBS executives dreaded going on the plane with Goodwin because of his lack of social skills”. The plane was configured to include a bedroom for Goodwin, which caused a few problems for his co-passengers on long-distance flights, it is claimed.

    “Executives who did travel overnight with Goodwin were obliged to sit up all night while Fred reclined in regal splendour in his bedroom aft,” Fraser writes. “The arrangement was a double inconvenience since, once Goodwin had gone to bed, the plane’s only toilet became inaccessible, because you had to pass through his private suite to reach it. ‘We’d be sitting there cross-legged all night,’ said one.”

    According to Fraser, former RBS chairman George Mathewson “almost had to plead” with Goodwin to have use of the jet, which had a maximum range of more than 5,000 miles, meaning it could comfortably fly non-stop from RBS headquarters in Edinburgh to Beijing and almost anywhere in the United States.

    The book claims the RBS lavished vast amounts of its shareholders’ money to support the lifestyles of its top executives.

    One acquaintance is quoted as saying: “Fred wanted to live like Aristotle Onassis on other people’s money.”

    Fraser quotes one former RBS insider who criticised the amount of money the bank spent on sponsorship of motor sport. “The amounts of money that were wasted on Formula One were shocking,” he said. “The bank spent about £28m in the first year of the Williams sponsorship.

    “There was no logic to it at all – it was just a vanity thing for Fred and because he liked motor sport.

    Racing last year, a sponsored car in the Grand Prix Racing last year, a sponsored car in the Grand Prix However, Fraser claims the “true villains of the piece” are the “politicians, central bankers, regulators and the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision” who allowed people like Goodwin believe they could “get away with virtually anything, whilst defying financial gravity and existing above the law”.

    Fraser writes: “Morality and ethics were thrown out the window and we saw the mis-selling of rip-off products on an epic scale – including the scandals of payment protection insurance and interest-rate swap agreements sold to small- and medium-sized enterprises.

    “The Treasury, the FSA [Financial Services Authority] and the Bank of England all turned a deaf ear to the complaints from the banks’ millions of ‘victims’ and paid scant heed to the overall balance-sheet strength – capital, liquidity and asset quality – of British banks.

    “And, at various stages between 1988 and 2008, British politicians also outsourced critical aspects of banking regulation and supervision to the private sector body, the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, which enabled the bankers to write their own rules. That, in itself, was an error easily as bad as any committed by Goodwin. So he is right. We can’t just blame it all on him.”

    Shredded claims the culture at RBS is still as “poisonous” as ever, and quotes one City expert who claims the bank was manipulating its finances in 2012 in order to give the impression it could be returned to private ownership.

    Tim Bush, head of governance and financial analysis at corporate governance watchdog Pensions and Investments Research Consultants is reported to have told Fraser: “My analysis was that RBS was aggressively puffing all the numbers in the hope of a quick and dirty sale.” Fraser said Bush’s view was confirmed in June 2013 when regulator the Prudential Regulation Authority identified a further £13.6bn capital black hole at RBS.

    Fraser paints a bleak picture for the future of Britain’s biggest bank and, as a result, the UK economy.

    He concludes: “If there is to be one lesson from the RBS catastrophe from an internal company perspective, it is that Britain’s much vaunted system of corporate governance is broken and is in need of an urgent overhaul.”
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 2nd Jun 14, 11:48 AM
    • 3,284 Posts
    • 2,145 Thanks
    greenglide
    “The result has been that, at the time of writing, RBS is probably a worse bank than it was under Fred Goodwin,” Fraser said. “If the right moves are now made, RBS could become a great bank again. If they’re not, I doubt it will even exist in 10 years’ time.
    “Whatever happens, it now seems impossible that British taxpayers will ever see a return on their £45.5bn investment in the bank,” he writes in the book.
    I think the operative word is "could".

    Sensationalising to get headlines. Any bank may not be in business in 10 years time.
  • Little Joe 1955
    Nat West Preserved Pension
    Hi
    I did ring number above, was referred to another number 02076499499. They advised me that they would write to me 6 weeks before my retirement date and in meantime send me an advice of what my options are at present. Very very helpful
    • brightonman123
    • By brightonman123 23rd Aug 14, 11:30 AM
    • 8,338 Posts
    • 48,512 Thanks
    brightonman123
    Did OP get a letter forwarded from RBS, via DWP?


    I worked for Natwest many years ago, which is now part of RBS.


    Only had a couple of years qualifying service, for non contributory pension, which I understood was frozen when I left, and taken over by RBS..

    I have just had a letter from RBS asking for current info, as they have been 'unable to contact me at address they hold'..?


    I have never moved!




    address for RBS on letter-


    RBS Pension Services
    HR People Services
    PO Box 1390
    Croydon CR9 1YB


    RBSpensionplans@rbs.com - that email has since bounced back!
    (no phone??)
    Last edited by brightonman123; 26-08-2014 at 10:55 AM. Reason: email rejected
    Long time away from MSE, been dealing real life stuff..
    Sometimes seen lurking on the compers forum :-)
    • CathA
    • By CathA 26th Aug 14, 8:35 PM
    • 953 Posts
    • 4,767 Thanks
    CathA
    Contact number re Nat West Pensions
    Did OP get a letter forwarded from RBS, via DWP?


    I worked for Natwest many years ago, which is now part of RBS.


    Only had a couple of years qualifying service, for non contributory pension, which I understood was frozen when I left, and taken over by RBS..

    I have just had a letter from RBS asking for current info, as they have been 'unable to contact me at address they hold'..?


    I have never moved!




    address for RBS on letter-


    RBS Pension Services
    HR People Services
    PO Box 1390
    Croydon CR9 1YB


    RBSpensionplans@rbs.com - that email has since bounced back!
    (no phone??)
    Originally posted by brightonman123


    Hi phone number is 0207 6499499, they are fantastically helpful. Your pension reference should be on the letter they sent you, if you don't have it they can trace you through your NI number I believe. I rang them today on that number, you need option 3 Good luck.
    • JFB56
    • By JFB56 22nd Aug 16, 3:21 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JFB56
    Advice Required on Deferring Pension
    I was due to get my Royal Bank of Scotland pension in July 2016 but my application went missing, no problem I can still get it! I am now thinking to defer it for a year as we don't need the income and interest in the bank is so low. Could anyone tell me if this is worth doing or better to start my pension and take my lump sum now? I am also opting to drop my lump sum by £10k to give a slightly higher monthly income.
    JFB56
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 22nd Aug 16, 3:39 PM
    • 31,597 Posts
    • 19,593 Thanks
    xylophone
    I assume that you have reached scheme pension age.

    Will it increase in deferment after scheme pension age?

    If not, there seems no point in not taking it?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 22nd Aug 16, 3:42 PM
    • 31,597 Posts
    • 19,593 Thanks
    xylophone
    Are you male or female? Have you reached State Pension Age?
    • JFB56
    • By JFB56 22nd Aug 16, 5:26 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JFB56
    Advice Required on Deferring Pension
    Hi Xylophone
    Thank you for such a quick response, yes I am now 60 so due works pension, but not due state pension for a few years. You have brought up a question I presumed about my pension increasing if left it so I will go back to the Pensions Dept and ask if not obviously it would be stupid to leave it. I am female.
    Many thanks JFB
    Last edited by JFB56; 22-08-2016 at 5:30 PM. Reason: Forgot to answer part of the reply.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 22nd Aug 16, 5:39 PM
    • 31,597 Posts
    • 19,593 Thanks
    xylophone
    Have you obtained a New State Pension Statement?

    https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 22nd Aug 16, 8:04 PM
    • 12,480 Posts
    • 8,856 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    I was rubbish with money at that age
    Originally posted by LouBlue
    In which case, thank God you didn't work for a bank.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 23rd Aug 16, 9:09 AM
    • 671 Posts
    • 474 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    I contacted RBS on behalf of my wife, and got the following reply:

    I was unable to locate a pension record based on your details.
    Unfortunately when you left the Group in 1973 the qualifying criteria for a preserved pension was being age 30 and having 10 years service. As you were not age 30 and only had 8 years service, you did not qualify for a pension.

    .. it is pretty much what I expected; but, does anyone know of a way to check this? It does seem a bit harsh.
    Originally posted by JerryW
    Would be interesting to see some stats on the RBS workforce profile back in those days!

    I'm guessing that the vast majority of lower-paid workers were women who left the workforce before the 'age of 30 and having 10 years service'.

    How convenient for RBS.
    • PensionTech
    • By PensionTech 23rd Aug 16, 1:29 PM
    • 710 Posts
    • 926 Thanks
    PensionTech
    Would be interesting to see some stats on the RBS workforce profile back in those days!

    I'm guessing that the vast majority of lower-paid workers were women who left the workforce before the 'age of 30 and having 10 years service'.

    How convenient for RBS.
    Well, to be fair to RBS, the legislative framework for preserved pensions was much looser then and many schemes just did whatever they were required to do and no more. And even if a preserved pension had been granted, it would likely have been pretty rubbish for the same reason - no GMP, no revaluation in deferment, quite probably no increase in payment either. It's only been since the late 80s and 90s that pension provision and protection has really been underpinned by legislation in a big way - and many employers with a DB scheme in deficit might tell you that it went too far the other way.
    I am a Technical Analyst at a third-party pension administration company. My job is to interpret rules and legislation and provide technical guidance, but I am not a lawyer or a qualified advisor of any kind and anything I say on these boards is my opinion only.
    • poppy99
    • By poppy99 8th Sep 16, 4:49 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    poppy99
    Reduction
    I have looked into taking my pension at 55 and have just been advised that as I'm taking it early they will take a 5% reduction approx for each early year. Surely this is wrong because I can take my pension at 55 anyway as the rules state I can and so does government legislation.
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 8th Sep 16, 5:06 PM
    • 10,178 Posts
    • 9,360 Thanks
    Andy L
    I have looked into taking my pension at 55 and have just been advised that as I'm taking it early they will take a 5% reduction approx for each early year. Surely this is wrong because I can take my pension at 55 anyway as the rules state I can and so does government legislation.
    Originally posted by poppy99
    Your scheme rules will state there is a reduction for taking it early which government legislation has not over ridden. Unless you are in one of the few schems which allows it (e.g. pol8ce, military or fire) and the administrations have c0cked up
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 8th Sep 16, 5:48 PM
    • 31,597 Posts
    • 19,593 Thanks
    xylophone
    I have looked into taking my pension at 55 and have just been advised that as I'm taking it early they will take a 5% reduction approx for each early year. Surely this is wrong because I can take my pension at 55 anyway as the rules state I can and so does government legislation.
    You have a defined benefit pension - these were designed to come into payment at scheme pension age when full benefits are paid without actuarial reduction.

    Some schemes permit benefits to be taken earlier but will apply the actuarial reduction because the pension is expected to be in payment for longer.

    Your scheme booklet should have details.

    https://worksmart.org.uk/pension-advice/workplace-pensions/all-about-retirement/can-i-take-early-retirement
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