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  • FIRST POST
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 25th Nov 15, 12:46 PM
    • 3,200Posts
    • 5,978Thanks
    SnowMan
    New State Pension starting amount and full record of qualifying years- trial service
    • #1
    • 25th Nov 15, 12:46 PM
    New State Pension starting amount and full record of qualifying years- trial service 25th Nov 15 at 12:46 PM
    Official MoneySavingExpert Insert March 16:

    We've a fully researched New State Pension guide you may find helpful.

    Back to SnowMan's original post...

    ------

    If you reach State Pension Age after 5/4/16 (i.e. new state pension applies) you can get (new) state pension information online now.

    The recorded message tells you about it when you call for a State Pension Statement.

    https://www.gov.uk/future-pension-centre

    As it is trial service it isn't found via google searches etc at the moment. You need the web address. I've decided not to post up the web address (for security reasons) but an automated message tells you it when you ring up for a statement.


    It is a trial service but, having tested it, it seems to work (from start to finish it took me under 20 minutes to get full access) and gave me

    a) my starting amount under the single tier system (based on qualifying years up to 5th April 2015) and
    b) a full history of what qualifying years I have (i.e. it shows individual tax years) including a list of missing years, and
    c) whether I am in time to purchase each missing year, and how much it will cost for each 'in time' missing year, and
    d) a projection of what my future state pension will be if all future years are qualifying years (including allowance for 2015/2016)

    Note I'm quite a number of years under age 55 but the information is still available, so this is information that has not been previously available

    It takes a little bit of time initially as there a lengthy verification process to go through (it's accessed via the government verify service, if you click on more services in section 3 of that link it shows the state pension service without a link).


    Edit 17th Feb 2016 and 5th March

    The trial online service is now linked to from the gov.uk 'Get a state pension statement' page, and access is possible through the old Government Gateway system also as well as through Verify

    https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

    In the section headed 'Online' there are links where it says

    You can sign in using the Government Gateway. You may need to answer a few questions they'll be based on things HMRC already know about you. You can then access other HMRC services securely.

    You can also sign in using GOV.UK Verify. If you have not used GOV.UK Verify before, it will take you about 10 minutes to get set up. You can access other government services securely wherever you see the GOV.UK Verify logo.
    Last edited by Former MSE Andrea; 31-03-2016 at 3:28 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
Page 3
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 26th Nov 15, 1:48 PM
    • 3,200 Posts
    • 5,978 Thanks
    SnowMan
    Not sure, but I think there is an error in mine somewhere. I'm 50 now and it says I have 33 years NI so far, and have missed 2 years in 83/4 and 84/5 when I was at university - Don't think it really matters, but I thought you got credited?
    Originally posted by Judwin
    Automatic youth credits applied from age 16 to 18 (the 3 tax years starting from 6th April before your 16th birthday to be precise).

    However you won't have got credits just because you were at university. As most people went to university around age 18-21, you can typically have a few missing years then.

    I'm missing a few years for the same reason.

    It says my current entitlement is 140.01(as of Apr 2015), and if I continue till retirement I'll get 151.25 (in March 2032).

    All sounds fine, but, I was contracted out into a private pension with the Pru from 1989-2006. I was expecting my 'current/old' rules foundation amount to be much closer to the 115 basic plus perhaps a few quid of SERPS/S2P.
    Yes does look a bit strange, but it could be right based on the 140.01 being the old scheme calculation (the new scheme calculation you would expect to be well below 140.01 because of the contracted-out deduction that should apply).

    If from 2006 to 2015 you have been contracted-in and working then you might have some significant additional pension from then, and you could have some additional pension from before 1989 which because your contracting out was through a personal pension won't obviously be wiped out by the post 1989 contracting-out.

    My best guess is that it is correct.

    I recall there a help thing you can click when you are logged in to the DWP system(?). You could try that.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 26-11-2015 at 1:51 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • Judwin
    • By Judwin 26th Nov 15, 2:15 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    Judwin
    Gunjack/Snowman


    Thanks - I obviously mis-understood about being credited for university years, and yes - I've been credited the three years before that (81/82/83), and have a full record from 85/6 to date.


    I know the COD is fiendishly difficult to calculate, but I had assumed that being contracted out for 17 years, and only contracted in for around 13 so far(pre 89 and post 06) I would struggle to build up any additional pension, so I would start in Apr16 with 115 and then build up to the nSP limit of 155 at a rate of roughly 4 a year from then on - taking about 10 years (so I'd be 61). However, if the 140 starting amount is correct it looks like I'll only need to work for another 4 years - so 55.


    I'm beginning to wish that I'd stayed contracted out till 2012!
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 26th Nov 15, 2:32 PM
    • 10,838 Posts
    • 8,119 Thanks
    GunJack
    Must admit, after reading the last couple of posts, snowman how would I have got a starting amount of 136-odd, when the only years I HAVEN'T been contracted out were my three youth years?? (age 47, 30 full years inc. 3 youth years, and c/o in civil service then industry DB schemes with no break in employment)

    ...just when I thought I understood....
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 26th Nov 15, 2:42 PM
    • 31,620 Posts
    • 19,610 Thanks
    xylophone
    Must admit, after reading the last couple of posts, snowman how would I have got a starting amount of 136-odd, when the only years I HAVEN'T been contracted out were my three youth years?? (age 47, 30 full years inc. 3 youth years, and c/o in civil service then industry DB schemes with no break in employment)

    ...just when I thought I understood....
    You may have some S2P even though you were contracted out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Second_Pension
    'S2P gives all employees earning up to 32,592 a year (in 2011/12) a larger pension than SERPS, regardless of whether they are "contracted out" or not - with most help going to those in the '"lowest"' earnings (up to 14,400 a year in 2011/12) - known as the "LET" or '"Low Earnings Threshold"'.
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 26th Nov 15, 3:03 PM
    • 3,200 Posts
    • 5,978 Thanks
    SnowMan
    Must admit, after reading the last couple of posts, snowman how would I have got a starting amount of 136-odd, when the only years I HAVEN'T been contracted out were my three youth years?? (age 47, 30 full years inc. 3 youth years, and c/o in civil service then industry DB schemes with no break in employment)

    ...just when I thought I understood....
    Originally posted by GunJack
    I'm struggling to explain that. There may be a reason but I can't think of it.

    SERPS and COD could diverge (bearing in mind that additional pension pre 97 = SERPS - COD so it is possible to have +ve or -ve additional pension pre 97) because

    a) earnings for SERPS used to be based on the best 20 years rather than a working lifetime average of earnings for CODs and
    b) when they reduced the SERPS target from 25% to 20% in 1988 during phasing in, SERPS accrued at a higher rate than COD for a while and
    c) because of the different revaluation rates used for GMPs and CODs where schemes opted for say fixed rate revaluation.

    However a) and b) don't apply for those coming under single tier and c) is likely to make additional pension negative (or have no affect for the civil service who use s148)
    Last edited by SnowMan; 26-11-2015 at 3:13 PM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 26th Nov 15, 3:17 PM
    • 10,838 Posts
    • 8,119 Thanks
    GunJack
    thanks guys I think xylophone may be closest with the serps/s2p stuff, as that is the only thing I could see would add anything despite being contracted out. No GMP issues going on either, as from 1988 to 2007 was in the civil service scheme so straight x/80ths Final salary...

    I think I will be checking it again after Apr 16
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple
    • Retyre
    • By Retyre 26th Nov 15, 3:31 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Retyre
    You get to talk to someone who gives you the web address but I had already tried it and couldn't use it because they need you to verify with a photo driving licence or passport, neither of which I have!
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 26th Nov 15, 5:07 PM
    • 31,620 Posts
    • 19,610 Thanks
    xylophone
    No GMP issues going on either, as from 1988 to 2007 was in the civil service scheme so straight x/80ths Final salary...
    You will have a post 88 GMP.

    http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/members/deferred/information-for-deferred-members/#faq5442

    "The Civil Service Pension Scheme is contracted out of the State Earnings Related Pension Scheme (SERPS). If you were a member of the Civil Service Pension Scheme between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997, GMP is the minimum amount that the scheme must provide for you at State Pension Age (SPA)."
    • downshifter98
    • By downshifter98 26th Nov 15, 5:11 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 271 Thanks
    downshifter98
    I've signed up for this service - seems to work very slickly and, as a bonus, the few years that I thought were contracted out (1985-90?) are showing as full years meaning the 30 years I have will be worth topping up to gain the full 155 (I'm 51 but pretty much retired). Phew!
    • chris_m
    • By chris_m 26th Nov 15, 5:21 PM
    • 7,480 Posts
    • 29,101 Thanks
    chris_m
    ...but I had already tried it and couldn't use it because they need you to verify with a photo driving licence or passport, neither of which I have!
    Originally posted by Retyre
    Me too - however, in the (unexpectedly and impressively quick) response to my feedback, they said that they hope to have more options available by April, including having a bank account and debit card.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 26th Nov 15, 5:47 PM
    • 10,956 Posts
    • 8,964 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    I don't understand why they don't just support the government gateway system that's already in place and that anyone actually tracking their state pension already has.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • JezR
    • By JezR 26th Nov 15, 6:10 PM
    • 1,599 Posts
    • 1,152 Thanks
    JezR
    This is the replacement for Government Gateway.

    It is being tested out on beta services, where in general there are other methods also available.

    It doesn't become the frontline ID mechanism until April 2016, as other ways of assuring ID are needed for those without passport, photo driving licence, credit records etc. There are already a lot more evidence options than when it first went public.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 26th Nov 15, 6:51 PM
    • 21,551 Posts
    • 15,799 Thanks
    molerat
    What else can you use ? It asks if you have a photo dl or a passport or a foreign passport. Answer no then it kicks you off.
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • Nual
    • By Nual 26th Nov 15, 8:59 PM
    • 177 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    Nual
    So i tried it with a passport but no dl ID ( paper one), then debit card, then it wanted a credit card which I don't have and it kicked me off too. Rubbish
    • Retyre
    • By Retyre 26th Nov 15, 9:43 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Retyre
    This is the replacement for Government Gateway.

    It is being tested out on beta services, where in general there are other methods also available.

    It doesn't become the frontline ID mechanism until April 2016, as other ways of assuring ID are needed for those without passport, photo driving licence, credit records etc. There are already a lot more evidence options than when it first went public.
    Originally posted by JezR
    Having used the Govt Gateway for some years with all the checks it took to get on that one imagines it wouldn't have been beyond the realms of possibility to have the option to verify with this as well...
    • Judwin
    • By Judwin 26th Nov 15, 9:52 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 88 Thanks
    Judwin
    So i tried it with a passport but no dl ID ( paper one), then debit card, then it wanted a credit card which I don't have and it kicked me off too. Rubbish
    Originally posted by Nual


    I managed to get it to register me (via Experian) with a passport, debit card and credit card. I don't have a mobile phone or photo driving licence (old style purple jobbie for me).


    There appears to be a way to get paid 1p into a bank account too - but for some reason that failed for me.
    • downshifter98
    • By downshifter98 26th Nov 15, 10:32 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 271 Thanks
    downshifter98
    I used the Post Office verification - they accepted a credit card and passport but won't accept a paper driving licence which left me in limbo so I messaged them (the post office) and they emailed with very detailed instructions regarding installing the app and uploading my passport on that. They removed my previous 'manual' passport input and I re did it via the app which worked very well. Doing it this way meant no requirement for a driving licence. Very unsure whether I can trust it based on the fact that I thought I had 5 or 6 years contracted out (its showing all years as fully qualifying) however I have until 2019 to make top ups (I'm 5 years short) so will leave it until then.....
    Last edited by downshifter98; 26-11-2015 at 10:34 PM. Reason: extra info
    • JezR
    • By JezR 26th Nov 15, 11:11 PM
    • 1,599 Posts
    • 1,152 Thanks
    JezR
    There is a disclaimer on the entry page which I don't remember before but maybe I just overlooked it:
    This service is currently being developed, at the moment we are unable to guarantee its accuracy. You should not take any action on the basis of this information.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 27th Nov 15, 7:35 AM
    • 10,838 Posts
    • 8,119 Thanks
    GunJack
    You will have a post 88 GMP.

    http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/members/deferred/information-for-deferred-members/#faq5442

    "The Civil Service Pension Scheme is contracted out of the State Earnings Related Pension Scheme (SERPS). If you were a member of the Civil Service Pension Scheme between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997, GMP is the minimum amount that the scheme must provide for you at State Pension Age (SPA)."
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Interesting..... in 20 years of service this was never mentioned, neither do I recall ever reading about it. So, from 1988-1997 an element of accrued pension will be a GMP. Need to call mycsp anyway as I still haven't had a statement off them since they took over I will have quiz them on this. It's been deferred since 2007, but if this is the reason my starting amount is higher than 115, I'm not complaining

    I'm still learning about all this, thought my cs pension was a straightforward 1/80th x length of service x (best year of last 3 years of service) on leaving ...

    A big thanks to xylophone, snowman, et. al. for helping educate me
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 27th Nov 15, 10:22 AM
    • 10,956 Posts
    • 8,964 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    This is the replacement for Government Gateway.
    Originally posted by JezR
    In which case, I confidently predict we'll have both systems running alongside each other for at least a decade!
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
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