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CEL Ltd default CCJ! Pls help!

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Comments

  • Jeff123
    Jeff123 Posts: 45 Forumite
    A quick feedback
    The judge agreed to set the judgement aside. It only took 5 minutes and the claimants didn't turn up.
    I tried to persuade him to award me the refund of £255 for set aside and if he can dismiss the case
    but he refused. He said he will award costs at the defence hearing.
    Basically I have to write to CEL to let me and the court know what was the charge about and details of the contravention. They have up to 14th October to reply, then I can file my defence. I have got till 30th of October to that.
    So does it mean that I will have another hearing? And I can add my costs at that hearing.
    What if they don't respond to us?
    Sorry for my ignorance, I don't know how these processes work.
    What do I write to them? Any input will be highly appreciated.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,619
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    edited 2 October 2017 at 1:58PM
    I would write to CEL (keep proof of posting, free from the PO Counter, NOT Recorded!) and say the judgment is set aside so they must now start again, and you put CEL on notice that the pre-action protocol for debt claims has changed on 1st October and you expect (list what you want to receive, tallying it to match the new protocol!)

    Have a look at the threads by Daniel san and fineanddan, both on page one right now; those are not set aside cases but they both set out draft letters asking for certain information under the new protocol, written robustly to make it difficult for the Claimant, whilst reasonably asking for information.

    Do the same as fineanddan did, adapt the wording from Daniel san's recent letter you see there and add at the end that you will be seeking your costs back should they now not proceed, since this entire episode has been vexatious and unreasonable with a wholly misconceived claim against a registered keeper when CEL know full well they don't use the POFA.

    I would also enclose a costs schedule - to date - including the £255 and your loss of leave/travel and parking (!) for today, and tell them you will be claiming at least this amount at any hearing. There is an example costs schedule in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, a very simple but powerful document to send them when it will likely add up to over £300 already.

    Show us first! We will help perfect your wording, if needed.

    I don't expect a hearing, I expect CEL to flounder, then you can claim your wasted costs after all.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Jeff123
    Jeff123 Posts: 45 Forumite
    Ok thanks. I will read these posts. How do I get to this page?
  • DoaM
    DoaM Posts: 11,863
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    How did you get to THIS page? Did you click on a link in a list of topics on a page?

    Guess then how you find those other topics. ;)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,619
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    Jeff123 wrote: »
    Ok thanks. I will read these posts. How do I get to this page?

    See my signature (BELOW) which explains where to click to get back to page one, one click back.

    If you can't find your own thread later, click on your own username and all is revealed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    If CEL, who usually lose in court against forum aided claims, do not wish to make a claim under the new CPR regulations , I assume that OP can claim unreasonable behaviour costs.


    Why did the judge not award the set aside costs immediately I wonder? The amount was outrageous and the claim was made to an old address,
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Hi Jeff. My wife has just landed in exactly the same mess. Can you share the form you filled in with me as it would massively help us. Also anything else you took to court. I want to try and get the form off tomorrow. Thanks. Simon
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,619
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    Have you followed the advice this poster got and read saggi's thread about how she completed her N244 & statement? That's all that was done here.

    Set asides are covered in 'newbies please read these faqs first' at the top of the forum board.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Jeff123
    Jeff123 Posts: 45 Forumite
    Hi everyone.
    I have received the judgement order from court today.
    This is what it states:

    It is ordered that
    1) Judgement set aside forthwith
    2) By 4pm on 16th Oct 2017 claimant must file and serve amended Particulars of Claim setting out the facts supporting the claim.
    3) By 4pm 30th Oct 2017 Defendant must send to the Claimant and to the court any defence.
    4) The costs of the application today are reserved.
  • Jeff123
    Jeff123 Posts: 45 Forumite
    Coupon-Mad This is what I have written to send to CEL Pls adv if it sounds sound. Thanks.

    Dear Sirs,

    RE: Claim number xxxxx of Civil Enforcement Limited Vs ( my details).

    On 27th March 2017, you obtained a default judgement against me ( the registered keeper of the car) in relation to an alleged contravention that happened on 28th March 2016.

    A court hearing was held on 2nd October 2017 at xxxxx county court, and I am pleased to inform you that the judge has decided to set aside the judgement.

    You have now 2 weeks starting from the hearing date to let myself and the court know
    All the details about this alleged contravention that took place on the 28th March 2016, together with all photographic evidence of my car.

    You must know that from 1st October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to all debt claims. The new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your claim lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2).

    Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must comply with the protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure to comply to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply, and when costs come to be considered.

    As a serial litigator of small claims, you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter. As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding to note that your company is sending court claims to innocent motorists in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including yourselves, are immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

    I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    (i) whether interest or other charges are continuing;
    (ii) where the debt arises from an oral agreement, who made the agreement, what was agreed (including, as far as possible, what words were used) and when and where it was agreed;
    (iii) where the debt arises from a written agreement, the date of the agreement, the parties to it and the fact that a copy of the written agreement can be requested from the creditor;
    (iv) where the debt has been assigned, the details of the original debt and creditor, when it was assigned and to whom;
    (v) details of how the debt can be paid (for example, the method of and address for payment) and details of how to proceed if the debtor wishes to discuss payment options;
    (vi) the address to which the completed Reply Form should be sent
    (vii)enclose a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form
    (viii) enclose a Financial Statement form.

    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on you and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until you have complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    You must know that I shall be seeking my costs back should you now not proceed, since this entire episode has been vexatious and unreasonable with a wholly misconceived claim against a registered keeper when You know full well you don't follow schedule 4 of POFA 2012.

    I am also enclosing a costs schedule for your information. I will be claiming at least this amount at any hearing.

    Schedule of costs:

    Set aside fee; £255.00

    Trust online fee to find out information about the CCJ; £10.00

    Research and preparation of defence as litigant in person @£19 per hour.
    10 hours. Total £190.00

    Printing of 3 copies of witness statement and skeleton argument and postage
    Estimate £25.00

    One day off work to attend hearing on 2nd October 2017 @£ 315 per day.
    £315.00

    Mileage driven and petrol costs to attend court and return
    £10.00

    Car parking on day of hearing on 25/3/15
    £2.50

    Total costs claimed £807.50



    Yours faithfully
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