Budgeting with an unenthusiastic husband

NorthLondonChick · 5 May 2017 at 11:18AM

Hi Friends.

Longtime lurker here as you can see by my 7 yr badge but pitiful amount of posts

I dont quite know where to start and what to say so apologies if it gets a bit higglety pigglety and waffely!

Im late 30s and from a family with little knowledge of money management. My parents struggled dreadfully to keep things afloat whilst I was growing up. I have very early memories of us all sleeping together in the living room over the winter to save on heating the house, of seeing one less plate of food at the dinner table & asking my mum where her dinner was only to be told she'd "have something later" (as an adult I now understand what that meant

) and of my mum opening her purse and just seeing coppers in there.

Despite working since I was 15 I could see myself heading down the same path. I hit a rough patch in my early 20s after a sudden breakdown of a relationship & promptly found myself having to live alone & pay all the bills associated with that. After my rent and all direct debits, I had £12 week for food. It was tough but I got by. This taught me to pay in full things such as car insurance etc. I'd have had a darn sight more than £12 left over for food if I'd done that from the start

Late 20s saw another very tough period after I bought a small studio flat then discovered that I couldn't actually afford to live there (very long story on my reasons for buying!). Luckily my job at the time meant that I was provided a taxi to get into work (as it was a 3am start) so I was able to walk the 9.6 miles back home 3 days a week. I would eat on those days to give me energy and just suck ice cubes on the other 2 days that I could afford the £1.20 bus. Again, somehow got through it in one piece & learnt so much in the process.

Fast forward 10 years & all is well....at the moment. However, I feel that we're slipping. I am now married & live in a lovely house although it needs sprucing up. Having a husband is great as we have double income but he has a very different outlook on life than me moneywise. He is not as careful and dislikes being told how to spend his own money. He is extremely popular and likeable with a huge group of friends which means that he is out 2 or 3 times a week meeting them, going to leaving drinks, birthday drinks, etc (although he doesnt always drink at these as we are trying to start a family).

His family are also very sociable & want to meet at least once a month. They only live 5 miles away but always want to meet for a restaurant meal which costs each person around £35/40 a pop. They seem fine with that but it makes me uncomfortable. It wasnt always like this but as my husband's siblings have gotten older & gotten jobs it means they have money to do these things whereas before we'd just all meet at the parent's house for a Sunday Lunch type thing as everyone was poor

So I'm wondering how to approach all this. My husband is really lovely & I don't want to make him out to be mean :smileyhea but he has said before that he doesn't want to live like a pauper. He says he has worked hard to get to where he is with his income so he wants to enjoy it. We pay the same amount into a joint account every month & all bills come out of that. Anything left in our personal account is our own to do what we want with. I have made him start a pension as I've told him that I'm not supporting him in his old age :rotfl:

We remortgaged last year & took out an extra £10k & did essential work on the house (new windows/radiators/ structural flooring work). We ran out of money so got a barclays 5 yr loan of another £10k to try to finish the rest of the house but we're about to run out of that too and are only partway through the house. We also bought new sofas on 1yr 0% interest free which is another monthly payment now. I can feel all this is stressing me out as I'm getting flashbacks to my youth. I don't want to have to walk 9 miles home from work every other day again

I have spoken to my husband today and he's happy to chat about money & cutting back. Although at the moment he's saying the only issue we have is we spend too much on cat food so looks like I'll have my work cut out for me

So my (very long winded!) question is:

Do I try to put us on a budget for our joint stuff (realistically, mostly just groceries & making sure any Eating Out money comes from personal accounts) and build up savings/overpay 10k loan/mortgage?

Or do I just concentrate on my own personal account & cut back on everything to try to overpay the loan/mortgage even though it is a joint thing? I also have a BTL mortgage on a tiny flat near my parents 400 miles away in just my name which is in negative equity. I'm debating trying to clear that. It has always just ticked along (the rent covers the mortgage & I can cover the rent when its unoccupied).

Gosh, this is a monster post! Sorry and well done for getting to the end! :T xx

National_Debtline · 5 May 2017 at 12:20PM

Hi NorthLondonChick,

I am afraid there is no easy answer here, you and your husband have to do what is right for you. Feel free to post a SOA as that may give other posters more insight, but the overall situation may be something you are better talking about with an independent financial advisor (be careful of their charges).

I think if all of your payments are up to date, and you have a decent emergency fund, and your husband would prefer to have his own money after all of the commitments are taken care of, then that is fair enough. You can also handle your own money however you see fit. Just be careful of taking on any more credit. Doing up houses is expensive and time consuming, and realistically takes years. From what you have said you may be better to clear the debt you have now, before you move onto the next project. Doing a bit at a time, rather than doing the whole house and having £20k+ of debt to clear. Good luck,

Laura
@natdebtline

ReadingTim · 5 May 2017 at 12:50PM

Negative equity is only a problem if you're thinking of selling your BTL flat. If you're not (and if the rent covers the mortgage and you can make up the shortfall when it's empty, then why would you?) then put this out of your mind - it's not relevant to the problem that you and your husband have which is that you're socialising at a level which is incompatible with your income.

Suggest the priorities are:

ensure you don't get into debt or get deeper in it if you're already there
get out of debt if you're in debt
start pension/saving for retirement
start saving for the cost associated with starting and having a family - all the way from babygrows to university tuition fees
savings for other stuff like moving house, new car, once-in-a-lifetime holiday

enthusiasticsaver · 5 May 2017 at 1:18PM

My husband and I always had a joint account out of which all household bills and anything deemed joint comes out of (including joint entertainment which would include family meals) and we each had a personal account purely for personal spends - ie personal entertainment, hobbies and clothes. All our income went into the joint account and we each get the same in personal spends. This seemed fairest as when we had children my income was part time and therefore a lot less than my husbands.

Is there a reason why you cannot do this? This would mean you could set up a proper household budget and your husband has some personal spends money to do as he wishes with but you could control the bulk of the household spending as you seem to have a better handle on it than him.

You could also point out that you are taking out high debt to do your house up (which is technically not his money) so to enjoy his income you need to be sensible about how much debt you take out in particular if you are looking to start a family when your income will decrease considerably. Spending as if you are free and single, whilst taking out loans and other debts when you have a mortgage too is not sensible unless the spending is controlled. You only have to read a few diaries on this forum to see how quickly the debt spiral can kick in and this is just the tip of the iceburg. There are many other people out there who do not frequent this forum but struggle financially. Learn to save up for this stuff and wait.

NorthLondonChick · 5 May 2017 at 1:43PM

Thank you both. We are covering repayments ok at the moment but I agree that I feel that our level of spending has crept up and is now getting tighter and unsustainable if we want to save more for our house fund or have a child.

I have spent yesterday evening and this morning going through all our accounts to get a better idea of whats going on. I check my banking app every day but obviously this only tells whats in there at a given moment - not whats been spent in groceries etc. I totalled last month's outgoings and we spent £381.79 on food which is absolutely obscene for 2 people and a skinny cat! I started meal planning last week which has helped a little (lots of bean based meals instead of meat everyday) but we really need to get a grip on this.

I started my pension late so have been putting £500 aside each mth for that. I am self employed so it comes straight out my limited company. Husband was putting the minimum into his employee one so I've made him sort that. I'm unsure what his current % is but will ask him tonight during The Talk.

I've said no to any more loans - even 0% ones to stuff we dont need. We will have to build up a cash pot for them first if we want them.

The barclays loan is £187 for 5yrs at 4.9%. I think this is whats stressing me out the most. I want rid of this as soon as i can.

Sofa is £111mth for 12mths at 0%. I am feeling ok about this one as its "only" a year.

My BTL doesnt bother me too much although it has required substantial work carried out on it in past years (severe damp/wet rot/dry rot/new boiler/complete roughcasting of outside/total redecoration including new bathroom). Mortgage plus insurance is just shy of £200pm. This is repayment with 15yrs left and I throw another £25pm at it to overpay since I have a tenant in there at the moment. My only concern is that this is totally mine. If I dont have enough to pay the mortgage/any big bills then I'm in trouble as Husband wont cover it (I think, have never actually asked him! But i see this as my problem and not his)

Home Mortgage is £1105.80pm split equally between both of us. We have £203k outstanding and house is worth roughly £480k-£500k.

As I am self employed I am trying to save up to cover maternity leave should I need it. I've saved around 4mths worth at the moment. This is in place of any savings - it's all going into my maternity pot.

Husband has savings of around £6k i think but he feels nervous without this buffer so would rather take out a loan than spend his savings.

Thank you for the advice so far xx

NorthLondonChick · 5 May 2017 at 1:44PM

Thank you Enthusiastic Saver. Looks like we crossed posts! x

nkkingston · 5 May 2017 at 1:51PM

I think you want to draw up a household budget and tackle these expenses together, since the money was spent together. Remind him that though it's not 'fun', it means more money in the long run if you pay down the loans quickly because you're losing less cash to interest rates. If he feels strongly that he should enjoy the fruits of his labours, why let a bank manager live off them instead?

Doing a full budget together, reconciling all your spending for a few months, might make him realise he's spending more than he thinks on nights out (or maybe reassure you that he isn't!). You can talk about what 'fair' means to you as a couple - does he get more fun money because he needs to spend more to keep his family happy, or because he earns more? Do you get more 'essential' money because being a woman is intrinsically more expensive than being a man?

If you're trying for a family, having a "strong and stable" budget that takes into account the potential extra costs of kids now means (a) you'll have some savings ready for maternity leave / child care etc and (b) you'll be used to living with less fun money than you are now so it won't come as much of a shock. Set up a joint savings account that you treat in the same way as the bills account, with a set monthly outgoing, so that you've got an emergency fund for anything that pops up in the future.

NorthLondonChick · 5 May 2017 at 2:22PM

Wise words from everyone - thank you so much xx

I will ask him tonight about his feelings about everything and see if we can come to an agreement. I wrote that massive first post to try to explain why I think I feel so nervous about losing everything and having no money. My sister went the other way - credit cards maxed out, new car every year, wardrobes bursting with clothes. I think once she got some money she wanted to enjoy it as she'd never had it growing up. I went the other way.

I'm going to ask him about his personal account too. I'm not quite sure what he earns (that sounds insane reading that back!). I think it is around £3k mth but he has various outgoings that i dont such as gym (which he does go to!), cineworld card, Netflix, Prime Music etc.

When i said last mth that we needed to change our DD into joint account from 1000 to 1200 to cover the new loans he was unhappy and said he was feeling uncomfortable about so much money needing to go into the joint account.

Either this means he thinks we're overspending or he is not happy about having less "me" money.

I think this needs addressing. As does what happens when a baby comes. Should I be saving more money now to cover maternity (ideally 6 mths) or is this a joint thing that we both should contribute too? I'm not sure.

Lots to talk about.....

MallyGirl · 5 May 2017 at 2:38PM

NorthLondonChick wrote: »

I think this needs addressing. As does what happens when a baby comes. Should I be saving more money now to cover maternity (ideally 6 mths) or is this a joint thing that we both should contribute too? I'm not sure.

Lots to talk about.....

err - yes, a baby is a joint thing. If you want to take a decent amount of time off then he will have to contribute more. You shuld not be trying to cover this on your own.

My husband was a bit 'don't need to skimp so I don't want to'. Dedicated Waitrose shopper. Everything Apple. etc, etc. I controlled all the finances, stoozed like mad, shopped around for best deals. It would make me mad when I was scheduling money movements between multiple accounts to make £5 here and there and he would spend more than that every day on a posh sarnie and coffee.
Then he got made redundant after 18 years with company. He was shocked.
Now he is back in work but takes soup every day for lunch and has calmed down on the spending a lot. He does love ApplePay though which is a pain as it comes straight out of the account when using a credit card would keep hold of our money, offsetting the mortgage, for longer. Luckily it is pretty much paid off now or I would have to tackle this too.
We do have a totally joint bank account though - no his and hers at all - so when I took a year of maternity leave everything just carried on but it was more funded by him.

sam_r2d2 · 5 May 2017 at 2:42PM

"Either this means he thinks we're overspending or he is not happy about having less "me" money.

I think this needs addressing. As does what happens when a baby comes. "

I think you have hit the nail on the head here - while it is sensible to have seperate accounts for personal things it doesn't seem like he has a grasp on the joint expenses.

Me and my wife earn around 4k take home per month, we budget for the bills (with ynab, really useful!) And then split what is left over down the middle for personal things. We sit down monthly and work out what we need to budget for the next month

I earn around 400 per month more than wife but this is split between the two/added to household budget as what's the point of me having loads of money and going out if our house is falling apart/wife is sat at home panicking about money!

I think you need to sit down with him and work out where the funds for the baby are going to come from! Clearing the debt and finishing the house should be top of the agenda (as you rightly said!)

Well done for taking the time to post and it is difficult trying to balance a household budget if both people aren't on the same page, but you need to persevere and see if there are any reasons he doesn't want to add to the joint account, like a previous ex wasting the money etc etc.

Finding out how much he earns would be a good idea too as you have no idea what he can afford! Maybe he earns much less now and is worried about being able to afford more

bouncydog1 · 5 May 2017 at 3:17PM

Spreadsheet freak here! I have spreadsheets out for a year showing all income and outgoings DDM's/SOM's whether monthly, quarterly etc. That way I know exactly what we have available.

Sounds boring but only takes a couple of minutes to check each day and that way you also ensure all income and outgoing is what is expected. Moved to this method years ago, when DH's wages went into the account and then out again (bank error) not discovered until we got a 6 monthly paper statement!!! Took ages to sort out.

Budgeting with an unenthusiastic husband

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