Add your feedback on energy supplier Powershop

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  • fewkeste
    fewkeste Posts: 534 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Hengus wrote: »
    Ofgem's only response has been to re-state their policy re the appointment of a Supplier of Last Resort. I responded by telling them for the third time that PS Energy Ltd does not hold any Supply Licences. Ofgem really doesn't like dealing with consumers so I am not expecting to hear anymore from them.

    Since I didn't get a response straight away from you I began to worry that you'd been given bad news so I sent this email to Ofgem yesterday:

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    I am a customer of Powershop (a subsidiary of NPower). Because of the way the account is operated, customers gain best
    value/discount by buying power well in advance of the actual consumption date.

    This means customers operating their account to achieve maximum savings will have substantial amounts of money in credit with Powershop.

    Because they are a limited company and a subsidiary of Npower, can you confirm if customers' credit will still be protected under Ofgem's consumer protection guarantee or not?

    I know you have already been asked this question by at least one other Powershop customer some time ago so can you provide me with a definitive answer quickly please?

    Regards .....

    Today - one day later, I received this reply:

    Dear *****

    Thank you for your email.

    We can confirm that, for regulatory purposes, in a white label arrangement such as Powershop, the supply licence holder (npower) is fully responsible for all dealings with the customer including matters relating to credit balances. Therefore, if a white label supplier became insolvent, that would not affect the supply licence holders responsibility regarding customer credit balances.

    We can also confirm that, in the event that a supply licence holder became insolvent, and no arrangements were in place to sell that company as a going concern or otherwise secure continuity of supply for customers supplied under that supply licence, Ofgem would have the ability to issue a Supplier of Last Resort Direction requiring another suitable licensed supplier to take over responsibility for those customers.

    Further, we can also confirm that it is Ofgem’s policy position that, in selecting a supplier in these circumstances, we seek to ensure that that new supplier would honour existing credit balances.

    The references to regulatory purposes here include:

    (a) Ofgem’s ability to impose financial penalties and other enforcement measures against a licence holder. However, we recognise that the position of an individual consumer in relation to their credit balance may be different; and

    (b) The ability of a customer to seek a determination from the energy ombudsman in respect of consumer matters including issues relating to credit balances.

    I trust that this addresses your query.

    Regards

    *****

    So, one day after my email they got back to me.

    Hengus, does this give you reassurance or do you still have concerns given the Limited Company status of Powershop?
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    edited 21 November 2017 at 5:02PM
    fewkeste wrote: »
    Hengus, does this give you reassurance or do you still have concerns given the Limited Company status of Powershop?

    I still have concerns but that is not why I switched. PS Energy Ltd is not a Supply Licence holder and its contract terms are, in my opinion, vague. For example, M and S Energy is a white label supplier. Its energy supply contract starts with:

    This Contract is between you and SSE Energy Supply Limited for electricity and/or Southern Electric Gas Limited for gas for M&S Energy.

    Similar wording is used in other White Label contracts; eg; Sainsburys and Ebico. In other words, the contract is between the consumer and the parent supply company. There is no question if SSE goes bust then the Supplier of Last Resort and consumer credit protection would apply.

    My primary concern is the relationship in Law between a parent company and a wholly-owned Limited subsidiary. Limited companies are set up for a number of reasons including the management of any financial risk to the parent if the subsidiary becomes insolvent. A basic tenet of English Law is as follows:

    As a matter of English law, a parent entity (domestic or foreign) of a limited company cannot be held liable for the debts of that subsidiary upon its insolvency unless it has contractually agreed to accept such liability.

    I have raised these specific concerns with Ofgem and asked that the matter be passed to their legal team for advice. A response to this question has not been forthcoming.

    There may be nothing amiss here but, given the high amount of credit PS users have on their accounts, it is something to think about.

    In sum, the issue is nothing to do with Suppliers of Last Resort, it is the risk associated with the winding up/insolvency of a Limited company. Domestic energy consumers would be well down the list of creditors in my opinion.

    Edit: The main reason that white label supply contracts are written the way that there are is, I believe, to comply with what is written in the Supply Licence:

    White Label means a Tariff:

    (a) offered by virtue of a Gas Supply Licence of the licensee or an Affiliate Licensee;

    (b) which uses the brand name of a person that does not hold a Gas Supply Licence (excluding any Subsidiary, Holding Company, or Subsidiary of a Holding Company of the licensee which does not hold a Gas Supply Licence);

    I raised this point with Ofgem and failed to get a response.

    As I have said previously, Powershop consumer credit etc may be fully protected, I just do not know: Ofgem’s responses to date have been less than convincing.
  • MrChips
    MrChips Posts: 1,010 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Thanks to everyone who has helped me navigate my first few weeks with Powershop!

    I'm nearing the end of my first billing month, and have so far snapped up all discounted November power that has been offered to me. However I'm still £13.22 behind for the month to date and expect to incur a further £4 of charges by the end of the month.

    What happens if I haven't paid for this via powerpacks before the month end? I guess I get charged at full price? I do have "standard power packs" available to me but these are at no discount so I'm trying to understand what, if any, value there would be for me to buy these if I would just get billed at the same rate anyway?
    If I had a pound for every time I didn't play the lottery...
  • fewkeste
    fewkeste Posts: 534 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    MrChips wrote: »
    What happens if I haven't paid for this via powerpacks before the month end? I guess I get charged at full price? I do have "standard power packs" available to me but these are at no discount so I'm trying to understand what, if any, value there would be for me to buy these if I would just get billed at the same rate anyway?

    You've hit the nail on the head. Rather than buy Standard Power Powerpacks yourself and possibly buying more than you need, let Powershop buy any power for you. That way they will only buy the minimum required to settle the account. If your account review date is in December, you might be able to buy newly released Special Packs that might fill the hole in your credit pot.

    Don't feel hard done to - I expect every/most new customers will have a short period where they have to top up (or be topped up by Powershop) with Standard Power at the start of their time with Powershop until they build up more discounted credit in their pot.

    Hope that helps.
  • MrChips
    MrChips Posts: 1,010 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    That does help, very much. Thank you.

    That was the logic I had applied, but thought I would check in with the wiser folks here in case I had missed something :)

    My conclusion is, there is never any point buying standard power packs (i.e. those with no discount).
    If I had a pound for every time I didn't play the lottery...
  • fewkeste
    fewkeste Posts: 534 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    @MrChips It's almost as though Powershop read your post :D A new special pack has just appeared with 37.2% discount :j
  • fewkeste wrote: »
    @MrChips It's almost as though Powershop read your post :D A new special pack has just appeared with 37.2% discount :j

    I don't see that new special pack :(.
  • fewkeste
    fewkeste Posts: 534 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    neilsedaka wrote: »
    I don't see that new special pack :(.

    I wonder if you have to shut down/log out then log in again to see it?
  • fewkeste wrote: »
    I wonder if you have to shut down/log out then log in again to see it?

    Logging out and in again makes no difference. Neither does using a different computer. I do see a Jumbo at 37.2% discount but bought that ages ago.
  • fewkeste
    fewkeste Posts: 534 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited 28 November 2017 at 2:25PM
    neilsedaka wrote: »
    Logging out and in again makes no difference. Neither does using a different computer. I do see a Jumbo at 37.2% discount but bought that ages ago.

    I can't explain that. It's on the account as viewed on my laptop and on the Android app. Perhaps you should send them a message/query using the contact us page to ask why you don't see it. I'm an electricity customer only - are you?

    If you do contact them - can you post what they say on here please?
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