Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 17th Apr 19, 11:01 AM
    • 62Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Plantlover66
    Infringment/Copyright Legal Help??
    • #1
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:01 AM
    Infringment/Copyright Legal Help?? 17th Apr 19 at 11:01 AM
    Good Morning All,
    Sorry if this isn't in the right section...I'm looking for anyone that may have a bit of knowledge on photography infringement/copyright law that can assist?

    Back in 2016, I set up a friendly photoshoot with a couple of local models, in order to take some film photographs for some upcoming exhibitions I wanted to take part in. I set up the photoshoot, contacted the models (unpaid), bought props and chose a location for the shoot.

    One of the girls I asked to model, has an apparel business. Photos were sent to everyone involved in the shoot to post on their social media, as long as they credited me and my fianc! who was helping me with the shoot. I've had to ask this one girl not to post our photos without crediting about a year ago already.

    This week, I logged onto social media to see that she had used one of the photos we took, has edited it and used it on clothing which she has already started selling. She never asked out permission and now we've asked her to take it down she's saying it was her shoot and that she can use the photos commercially because her friends are in the photos!! We've tried to discuss with her, but she's being very unreasonable even though we've offered her the chance to purchase the photo off us so she can use legally.

    Can anyone tell me where we stand and what I can do to get this resolved? We want her to pay for the photo regardless of if she stops selling the clothes because I know she's sold it to people already. I still have the original photo files and my original convo with the lady in question.

    How would I go about this legally? Small claims?

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 17th Apr 19, 11:21 AM
    • 6,331 Posts
    • 36,959 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:21 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:21 AM
    Did you have a model release form when she modelled for you?
    If the answer is yes, you may have recourse


    If no, cie la vie!
    Cardiac Arrest - Electrical - Patient unconscious! Heart Attack - Plumbing - Patient conscious!
    Defibrillators Cannot Cure a Heart Attack!
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 17th Apr 19, 11:43 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Plantlover66
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:43 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:43 AM
    No nothing like that unfortunately. There were no contracts/waiver forms signed at all. Does that mean there's no way for me to stop her using the photos?
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 17th Apr 19, 11:46 AM
    • 6,245 Posts
    • 29,567 Thanks
    Slinky
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:46 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:46 AM
    Copyright Notice digital images, photographs and the internet


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/.../c-notice-201401.pdf
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 17th Apr 19, 11:53 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Plantlover66
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:53 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 19, 11:53 AM
    Sorry I've just seen the end of your post. So basically, if nothing was signed I cannot legally do anything? Is that really the case? Even if we haven't given her explicit use of the photo to do what she wants with?

    Seems crazy that she's able to make money off something that doesn't belong to her.
    • bingo bango
    • By bingo bango 17th Apr 19, 12:29 PM
    • 2,513 Posts
    • 1,696 Thanks
    bingo bango
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 19, 12:29 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 19, 12:29 PM
    You need to read all of the document that Slinky posted above. Nothing needs to be signed at any point here.

    You are the creator of the work, and therefore own the copyright. You get to say who can use your work.

    This gives you a number of options, ultimately being court action against any infringment. You would be suing on the basis of the profit she makes from work that you own without a licence from you. Could also be a claim for reputational damage but I don't see that applying here.
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 17th Apr 19, 3:23 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Plantlover66
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 19, 3:23 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 19, 3:23 PM
    You need to read all of the document that Slinky posted above. Nothing needs to be signed at any point here.

    You are the creator of the work, and therefore own the copyright. You get to say who can use your work.

    This gives you a number of options, ultimately being court action against any infringment. You would be suing on the basis of the profit she makes from work that you own without a licence from you. Could also be a claim for reputational damage but I don't see that applying here.
    Originally posted by bingo bango
    Thanks guys, there's some great info there. I think the only way to deal with this would be legally. The lady in question has continued to be difficult about the matter and is insisting the images are hers because she's made 5 changes to the photo making it legally her design now. Does anyone know if this is in fact true?
    I've done a search online but couldn't find any info regarding this statement.

    I'd rather not have to take it down the legal route as I know it can get expensive but I've found a local solicitors who offer a free legal advice clinic once a week so I'm going to book in for an appointment with them ASAP.
    • Percy1983
    • By Percy1983 19th Apr 19, 11:07 PM
    • 4,994 Posts
    • 7,824 Thanks
    Percy1983
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 19, 11:07 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 19, 11:07 PM
    Here is my take (I am also a photographer).

    You own the copyright, yes, is it worth chasing, probably not.

    I would have gone at it another way, if she is now selling clothing I would have got in touch and seen if she needed more photos and offered my services (at a price of course).

    I suppose there is the principle of having a photo stolen and the time and effort which will be needed to stop it, is it worth that time and effort?
    Have my first business premises (+4th business) 01/11/2017
    Quit day job to run 3 businesses 08/02/2017
    Started third business 25/06/2016
    Son born 13/09/2015
    Started a second business 03/08/2013
    Officially the owner of my own business since 13/01/2012
    • molerat
    • By molerat 20th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • 21,413 Posts
    • 15,669 Thanks
    molerat
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    Thanks guys, there's some great info there. I think the only way to deal with this would be legally. The lady in question has continued to be difficult about the matter and is insisting the images are hers because she's made 5 changes to the photo making it legally her design now. Does anyone know if this is in fact true?
    I've done a search online but couldn't find any info regarding this statement.
    Originally posted by halexis91
    From the above link
    For an infringement of copyright to occur, it is not necessary that a work is copied in its entirety – copying a ‘substantial’ part of a work will also infringe. Taking an existing image and making an adaptation of it without permission will usually be an infringement of copyright.
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • Elise1912
    • By Elise1912 22nd Apr 19, 7:20 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 86 Thanks
    Elise1912
    What kind of contract or documentation do you have that either of you signed at the time of the shoot?
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 24th Apr 19, 4:09 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Plantlover66
    Here is my take (I am also a photographer).

    You own the copyright, yes, is it worth chasing, probably not.

    I would have gone at it another way, if she is now selling clothing I would have got in touch and seen if she needed more photos and offered my services (at a price of course).

    I suppose there is the principle of having a photo stolen and the time and effort which will be needed to stop it, is it worth that time and effort?
    Originally posted by Percy1983
    Hi Percy, thanks for the input.

    You're very right that is definitely one way of doing it, but this matter has honestly put me off working with her ever again. She's shown me that she's not the type of person I'd ever want a working relationship with because it just shows how untrustworthy she is.

    I think yes it is a lot of time and money but I think for me it's more principal. I had plans for all of those photos and now she's selling it as her work and ruined it whilst she's at it by putting awful text all over it!

    Have you ever gone legal with this sort of thing when it comes to your photography business? If so, I'm eager to hear the time and money it cost you if you're happy to disclose?
    • Mistral001
    • By Mistral001 24th Apr 19, 8:27 PM
    • 3,955 Posts
    • 3,033 Thanks
    Mistral001
    If this person is selling the clothing on Ebay or Amazon and that clothing have photos that infringe copyright, I believe Ebay and Amazon will remove the listing if they receive a complaint from the copyright owner.
    • Percy1983
    • By Percy1983 25th Apr 19, 12:55 PM
    • 4,994 Posts
    • 7,824 Thanks
    Percy1983
    Hi Percy, thanks for the input.

    You're very right that is definitely one way of doing it, but this matter has honestly put me off working with her ever again. She's shown me that she's not the type of person I'd ever want a working relationship with because it just shows how untrustworthy she is.

    I think yes it is a lot of time and money but I think for me it's more principal. I had plans for all of those photos and now she's selling it as her work and ruined it whilst she's at it by putting awful text all over it!

    Have you ever gone legal with this sort of thing when it comes to your photography business? If so, I'm eager to hear the time and money it cost you if you're happy to disclose?
    Originally posted by halexis91
    I have never gone the legal route over photos as above I have never seen it being worth my time and money for the small cases which have happened.

    If they are a company you can send them an invoice for use of your photo and if they don't pay you can then send the debt collectors.

    Past that wait and if they make it big claim a portion of the multi millions pound empire was started with your work.
    Have my first business premises (+4th business) 01/11/2017
    Quit day job to run 3 businesses 08/02/2017
    Started third business 25/06/2016
    Son born 13/09/2015
    Started a second business 03/08/2013
    Officially the owner of my own business since 13/01/2012
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 25th Apr 19, 3:57 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Plantlover66
    If this person is selling the clothing on Ebay or Amazon and that clothing have photos that infringe copyright, I believe Ebay and Amazon will remove the listing if they receive a complaint from the copyright owner.
    Originally posted by Mistral001
    Unfortunately, she's only selling on Instagram at the moment. I've just noticed that she has them on her site too which is hosted by WIX so I may contact them too as Instagram were no use at all!
    • Plantlover66
    • By Plantlover66 25th Apr 19, 4:03 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Plantlover66
    I have never gone the legal route over photos as above I have never seen it being worth my time and money for the small cases which have happened.

    If they are a company you can send them an invoice for use of your photo and if they don't pay you can then send the debt collectors.

    Past that wait and if they make it big claim a portion of the multi millions pound empire was started with your work.
    Originally posted by Percy1983

    Thanks Percy. That's probably the best way to do it if I do pursue it.

    I know IPEC have a small claims track which I assume is quite similar to small claims court so did think about going that route, but like you said I think I need to just think about whether the payout is gonna be worth the time and effort!

    Thanks for all of your help
    • sasparillo
    • By sasparillo 22nd May 19, 5:20 PM
    • 302 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    sasparillo
    This is where it is worthwhile considering joining a freelance union or professional association. Not only can they advise but they can send a hard hitting letter on your behalf to the infringer and often that’s enough to scare the infringer into complying. Furthermore, they can advise and help you with further action. The photos always remain your copyright unless you have assigned the copyright or rights to another party which you have not done. If she has modified the photo(s), it just makes the infringement worse. It sounds as if you gave her the right, free of charge, to publish the photo(s) unmodified as long as she gave you a credit.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

86Posts Today

2,024Users online

Martin's Twitter