When a charity named in a will has been removed from charity database
Options
Comments
-
What's it got to do with the residual beneficiaries, they have no say in whether you should honour specific bequests. If its in the will then pay it, even if the charity has changed its name or merged, that's what the testator wanted.
AIUI, if they no longer exist then the bequest (doesn't matter if its specific or not) would fail. There was a review being done I believe so the position may have changed but as it was, charities used to keep shell companies alive to receive legacies else they would fail.
If the bequest fails then you can't then pass on the funds from that bequest to what is essentially a completely different beneficiary (issue excepted). It should be distributed in accordance with the valid bequests.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
Thanks as always for your help everyone. You've been a great help. The current summary is that:
(1) the original charity has been merged with this new charity "there is a Directors Report which mentions how 2 charities were merged in 2010 - the "xxxx Village Hall" and the "xxxx Village Community Association Limited" - as a result of a public meeting in 2009 - and the "xxxx Village Hall" ceased to be a charity in its own right in 2010. "
(2) all residual beneficiaries are in agreement to pay out the bequest to the "xxx Village Community Association Limited" on the basis that our relative would have used the new Community Village hall, in the same way they used old Village hall.
Unholyangel, thanks for your comment as follows. Given the above, I think I'm OK to pay out to the merged charity (ie it is not a completely different beneficiary). I am not sure what "issue excepted" means. Will look it up.If the bequest fails then you can't then pass on the funds from that bequest to what is essentially a completely different beneficiary (issue excepted). It should be distributed in accordance with the valid bequests.0 -
Dilbert999 wrote: »I am not sure what "issue excepted" means. Will look it up.
"issue" is the legal term for direct descendants.
Unless there are specific terms in a will to the contrary "section 33" rules comes into play.0 -
unholyangel wrote: »AIUI, if they no longer exist then the bequest (doesn't matter if its specific or not) would fail. There was a review being done I believe so the position may have changed but as it was, charities used to keep shell companies alive to receive legacies else they would fail.
If the bequest fails then you can't then pass on the funds from that bequest to what is essentially a completely different beneficiary (issue excepted). It should be distributed in accordance with the valid bequests.
It's true that if the gift fails you can't, as executor, simply chose to give it to someone else. However, if the orgnaisation to whom the gift was made has simply changed it's name or merged or been taken over by another organisation then the gift may not have failed.
The Charity Comission guidelines mention
"The category of mis-described charities includes charities that have changed in some respect, such as name, address and constitution. If the will indicates that the testator/testatrix intended to benefit the purposes of the charity, rather than the organisation only, then where a successor charity exists to carry out those same purposes the legacy can be paid to that charity"
It sounds as though that is what happend here, and that OP is doing what the Charity Cmission and the Courts would dio - try to work out what the testator wanted, and so that!All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)0 -
It's true that if the gift fails you can't, as executor, simply chose to give it to someone else. However, if the orgnaisation to whom the gift was made has simply changed it's name or merged or been taken over by another organisation then the gift may not have failed.
The Charity Comission guidelines mention
"The category of mis-described charities includes charities that have changed in some respect, such as name, address and constitution. If the will indicates that the testator/testatrix intended to benefit the purposes of the charity, rather than the organisation only, then where a successor charity exists to carry out those same purposes the legacy can be paid to that charity"
It sounds as though that is what happend here, and that OP is doing what the Charity Cmission and the Courts would dio - try to work out what the testator wanted, and so that!
I was only responding to konark to explain why it may require the permission of the residual beneficiaries rather than describing what should happen in this particular case.
I would point out the above would be unlikely to apply though, given the wording of the will makes no indication of the gift being intended for specific charitable purposes. Quite the opposite imo, its making a gift to the specific organisation for the organisation to use however they wish.
However if the beneficiaries agree then all of the above becomes moot anyway.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
All this talk I of no consequence. The gift failed and falls back into the estate. End of story.unholyangel wrote: »I was only responding to konark to explain why it may require the permission of the residual beneficiaries rather than describing what should happen in this particular case.
I would point out the above would be unlikely to apply though, given the wording of the will makes no indication of the gift being intended for specific charitable purposes. Quite the opposite imo, its making a gift to the specific organisation for the organisation to use however they wish.
However if the beneficiaries agree then all of the above becomes moot anyway.0 -
Thanks again for your replies.
(1) I am trying to find out if the original Village Hall charity kept a shell company alive to receive legacies (this was mentioned in one of the replies, so thanks for this pointer.
(2) All residual beneficiaries are fine to pay out to the merged charity as they feel the relative would have wanted this & would have used/enjoyed the new Village Hall charity in the same way as they did the old one.
(3) I read this on the Charity Commission web site for "D2 A charity that ceases to exist between making the will and the date of death" Case 3 -The court has determined that, where a gift can be construed as a gift for the general purposes of the charity which no longer exists and identical purposes are being carried out by another charity, the gift will not lapse and a legacy can be paid to that charity for those purposes."
(4)the wording in the relative's will was "for its general purposes", plus the merged charity has similar objectives to the original charity i.e.. provision of facilities for education, recreation etc for the village and neighbourhood.
Based on the above, it looks like I can pay out to the merged charity. I really don't want to seek legal advice as it's not a huge amount, no one's in dispute with me and it would be a shame if some of it went on fees.0 -
Did the will mention any charity0
-
In their will, my relative left a specific sum of money to the local Village Hall management committee. The exact wording is "I give the following pecuniary legacy £xxxx to THE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE, xxx Village Hall, for its general purposes."
No charity number was listed in the will. But xxx Village Hall & its charity number *is* listed on the charity database, where its status is shown as "This charity has been removed from the Register."
It was removed from the Register when it merged with another charity in 2010: the xxxx Village Community Association Limited- as a result of a public meeting in 2009 - and the xxx Village Hall ceased to be a charity in its own right in 2010.
This merged charity xxx Village Community Association Limited appears to have the same function and objectives as the original xxx Village Hall charity.0 -
If there is a village hall with a management committee the gift will not have failed.
Charity status is not relevant except for IHT purposes.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards