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kevin6666 · 24 January 2016 at 9:20PM

Spain ruling on changing/lowering existing Tariff rates.

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/spains-supreme-tribunal-rules-agains-pv-system-owners_100022919/

I doubt UK law would provide us with any chance of such a review but would be good to see a study about what benefits be had.

Cardew · 24 January 2016 at 10:33PM

Personally I don't think the Government could, or should, reduce the FIT for those already in receipt of that subsidy. The government made a deal - albeit a stupid deal - and should stick with the consequences; even though it is other electricity customers and not the tax-payer that foots the bill.

I do think there is a case for getting the 'assumed 50%' export payment anomaly sorted out, and pay for actual exports. It is indefensible, that by use of Immersun type devices, a large percentage of generated electricity can be used in the house and 50% export still claimed.

Martyn1981 · 25 January 2016 at 11:21AM

Cardew wrote: »

Some figures about renewable energy in Estonia in case The Guru hasn't read them.

http://www.ies.ee/iesp/No11/articles/02_Runno_Lumiste.pdf

A little out of date, but compelling reading.

Thanks for posting that, what an extremely positive conclusion, especially given its age, and the fact that PV (and FiTs) progressed even faster than expected:-

8. Conclusions

The adoption of feed-in tariffs is a big step forward towards the protection of climate change. Feed-in tariff is the most common way to accelerate investments into renewable energy sector. Germany is a frontrunner in the adoption of feedin tariffs and also a pioneer in developing several technologies and adopting of renewable energy in its own territory. This process gives Germany a strong competitive advantage and huge sums of tariff money circle inside the own state. Other countries in Europe have followed the German example and adopted feed-in tariffs. In some cases this has caused unexpected payment levels for the electricity consumers.

Estonia adopted feed-in tariff in 2008. Since that period big investments into wind parks and CHP plants have been made. The main goal for the state (the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Communication) has been cutting the electricity price raise through economies of scale. Renewable energy is a tool for increasing energy security in Estonia.

Tariffs are an object of political will and negotiations and therefore there is a need for political consensus. Wider participation of communities in this process could raise public acceptance. A holistic view to the community development requires closer interaction with other sectors of economy. Special schemes benefiting small wind, solar energy, fermented bio-waste and other technologies could be an option.

Links between feed-in tariff and creation of new jobs are indirect. During the last years there has been definite growth of employment in the production of wind installations and photovoltaic devices in Estonia. However, the operations of these enterprises are mostly globally oriented rather than oriented to the local market.

Despite the influence of European Legislation (2001/77/EC and 2009/28/EC) on the local legal acts, countries have their own different agenda in mind.

German electricity consumers pay a high price but most of the installations are locally made and support local employment and the competitiveness of export companies. For the UK’s legislators, fair business conditions and consumers’ welfare are major goals. For the Estonian legislators, the major objective is to fulfil the legal EU requirements at optimal electricity price level.

Mart.

Martyn1981 · 25 January 2016 at 11:29AM

kevin6666 wrote: »

Spain ruling on changing/lowering existing Tariff rates.

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/spains-supreme-tribunal-rules-agains-pv-system-owners_100022919/

I doubt UK law would provide us with any chance of such a review but would be good to see a study about what benefits be had.

The retrospective moves by Spain to protect the established generators, and electricity suppliers is very sad.

Once they saw that PV could survive without subsidies they got Royal decree's passed that meant PV'ers had to pat a 'dumping fee' (I think it's €0.06/kWh) for exporting leccy to the grid. That's a fee, rather than a payment for export. However, the fee is not based on export, it's based on generation, effectively making PV in Spain un-economic against the grid.

And, if you want to go off-grid, you face multi-million € fines for 'stealing sunlight'.

Hopefully, eventually the EU will overrule those decrees, but till then, the subsidy free demand side PV industry in Spain is dead in the water ........ it's just too cheap!

So PV in Spain scares the generators, as much as PV in the UK scares the nuclear fan-boys. You couldn't make it up!

Mart.

kevin6666 · 25 January 2016 at 12:08PM

I don't think the Spain issue is 'sad' especially if it benefits the public. Presumably all the PV systems will remain in place and either they'll be more funds for more renewables or reduced bills/tax (however it's paid). And of course there is some need to protect existing generators/suppliers as someone has to keep the power flowing. I believe EON & RWE npower are making pretty big losses in the UK atm and I doubt it would benefit the public to fall to 4/5 big players.

Martyn1981 · 25 January 2016 at 2:28PM

kevin6666 wrote: »

I don't think the Spain issue is 'sad' especially if it benefits the public.

The public have been prevented from installing subsidy free PV in Spain, in order to protect the existing generators/suppliers.

So large scale supply side generation is being protected, at the cost of lower priced supply side domestic generation.

You don't find that sad?

Mart.

Martyn1981 · 25 January 2016 at 2:51PM

kevin6666 wrote: »

I don't think the Spain issue is 'sad' especially if it benefits the public.

Probably worth explaining this in more detail, just in case you don't realise what happened, and why demand side PV effectively stopped in Spain.

If you had a 5kWp system south facing at 50d pitch, you could expect it to provide pretty much all of your leccy needs, varying from ~500kWh in Dec to about ~750kWh in August. Annual gen of about 7,500kWh.

That terrified the leccy generators, and when they realised that subsidy free PV, with no export payments was still viable, they moved to get domestic PV blocked.

Now, that install will have to pay a fee to dump its export onto the grid (give it to the grid for free). The fee is about €0.06/kWh. But importantly is paid on generation, not export. So that 5kWp install would have to pay €450 pa for the privilege of giving away any spare leccy. That fee effectively prevents subsidy free PV in Spain.

For comparison, imagine if in the UK, the government decided to protect the nuclear industry by okaying a subsidy of £93/MWh for vast quantities of generation, whilst denying a similar subsidy for a small amount of domestic PV generation. Or okayed £120/MWh for off-shore wind (giant energy companies), whilst ending £80/MWh support for on-shore wind and large scale PV (smaller energy companies). All the time claiming they were trying to reduce bills!

Protectionism. Sad, very, very sad.

Mart.

kevin6666 · 25 January 2016 at 3:37PM

Clearly it's a very complex situation and I doubt it's any ware as simple as large scale suppliers been 'terrified'. If the governments are ruling in their favour then their must be genuine concern about traditional suppliers running a sustainable business. Now I'm all for the big suppliers going bankrupt but who's going to pay for the national grid? who's going to provide electric on demand to large industry?

It would seem dumping a load of heavily subsidised (and very expensive), peaky generation on to the grid isn't as simple as it sounds.

Martyn1981 · 25 January 2016 at 4:13PM

kevin6666 wrote: »

It would seem dumping a load of heavily subsidised (and very expensive), peaky generation on to the grid isn't as simple as it sounds.

The dumping fee is for unsubsidised PV generation. As already explained. In Spain domestic PV hit a point where it could work without subsidies or export payments. That terrified the leccy generators, and hence they applied for and got a Royal Decree. To prevent large scale off grid solutions, they also got a decree for a fine on stealing sunlight, which I seem to remember is in the tens of millions of Euros.

Not sure how free export can be described as very expensive? Perhaps you could explain?

Mart.

kevin6666 · 25 January 2016 at 4:58PM

I know you tend to forget the majority of FIT Installs are on tariffs that are extremely high, sure PV is cheap now but the damage was done early on. Would seem Spain couldn't sustain those unrealistic early tariffs hence was successful at getting them changed but sadly such was the damage further renewable roll out had to stop presumably to keep big suppliers in business and thus keep the lights on.

Certain FIT systems are having ROI's in the 2-300% range in the UK which sums things up nicely.

Poorly thought out schemes eh

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