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This 'accounting trick' solves space heating
Have an annual 2.5 million homes switch from NG boilers to heat pumps and resistance heaters (75/25)
Will add 11 TWh annual demand to electricity which should be met with 2.5GW of additional offshore wind power and 2.5GW of solar PV.
Over a ten year period you electrify heating and electricity demand jumps 110TWh but NG demand falls 275TWh
Also makes BEV adoption more rapid as lifetime cost of an EV over 15 years using maybe 50MWh falls by £4000 as it pays 6p/Kwh instead of 14p/kWh. Actually it would help BEVs in another way too. Used Bevs operating on 1.5p/mile electricity would hold their value much more than used petrol cars operating on 15p/mile petrol.
This is also not a subsidy but a way to address and account for the fact electricity costs are mostly grid costs which are roughly fixed even if we push 100TWh more or less through the grid.
Edit: Could roll it out in inner London first it would also help with the air problem there0 -
How do you plan to charge all those BEVs in inner London? Wouldn't you have to rip up & replace virtually every residential pavement to lay suitable cable for on street charging? Then there's the problem of a secure connection from the charging point to the vehicle to consider.
Edit: Could roll it out in inner London first it would also help with the air problem there4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North LincsInstalled June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh0 -
You do not gain much at all economically in reducing electricity demand.
Reduce consumption by 30% but pay 34% more for each unit of electricity
This takes a very narrow, short-term view of the economics. What about the cost of re-locating the inhabitants of the Seychelles due to rising sea-levels, or the increasing costs of dealing with the aftermath of severe weather conditons? These costs may be difficult to relate to at a personal level, but they're still there.0 -
How do you plan to charge all those BEVs in inner London? Wouldn't you have to rip up & replace virtually every residential pavement to lay suitable cable for on street charging? Then there's the problem of a secure connection from the charging point to the vehicle to consider.
You wouldn't do that it wouldn't make sense
Most Likely EVs and Autonomous cars will be around about the same time
You just need a few supercharging stations.
Hackney with a population of 275,000 doing about 800 million miles would only need 20 super Charing stations with 10 chargers at each.
Each charger can add 200 miles per 15 minutes meaning 20 stations with 10 chargers could charge as much as 1.4 billion miles annually easily enough to meet the 0.8 billion miles demand
So all hackney needs to do is convert it's petrol stations to EV super charging stations.
Or convert some car parks to EV super charging stations
These stations should be given the option to buy at a fixed price electricity for 5.5p and sell it to customers for 6.5p fixed.
They can also be connected to the HVAC grid to have only 3% losses rather than the more typical 10% of the LVAC grid to your home.
Having as many super chargers as petrol stations would also mean range anxiety would go away. That could allow smaller 20KWh battery EVs with 120 mile ranges to be feasible for those that can't afford a model 3 300 miles for £50k compared to an oil car at £15k
These supercharging stations can also supercharge vans and even HGVe super rapidly.
You can imagine a HGV as 5 independent batteries charged by 5 super chargers also in just 15 mins to give 200 mile range. Or a van with 2 sets of batteries charged in 15 mins for 200 miles range0 -
This takes a very narrow, short-term view of the economics. What about the cost of re-locating the inhabitants of the Seychelles due to rising sea-levels, or the increasing costs of dealing with the aftermath of severe weather conditons? These costs may be difficult to relate to at a personal level, but they're still there.
These economic costs are mostly exaggerated but even so these costs will be zero be used they are problems 100-200 or even longer term problems. By then we will have AI so everything will be free even if we don't have AI and compound natural productivity growth at just 3% annual that means in 200 years real costs will be only 1/350th of today or negligible0 -
Fast charging EV stations might even be more efficient than home charging.
These stations can be located right next to substations in the town/borough or even run from the higher voltage HVDC before the transformer
That means you may only face the 3% grid losses of the HVDC system rather than the more typical 10% grid losses of charging at home
A 50KWh charge costing 51.5KWh rather than 55KWh. Every little helps!
Hackney 7.4sqm with 20 charging stations would mean average car is less than 0.4 miles from a charging station so even if it's a mile to go to and from the charging station that adds just 0.25KWh energy usage. So still 55KWh Vs 51.75KWh
About a 6% overall energy saving not huge but not insignificant
Also these stations could have better more advanced chargers and charge in an optimal way
They would also mean less congestion on the final mile grid to your home so more spare capacity for heating to be electrified
It also saves the cost of having to install millions of chargers into homes and street sides
Plus this would mean no range anxiety at all as a 200 mile charge is only 15 mins and they would be as common as petrol stations
In fact if these super chargers were this common we could perhaps have EVs with half the range and half the battery packs which will save on cost and weight while not fearing range as as superchargers would be v.v common and cheap0 -
Hi All
Just a reminder, feeding trolls simply encourages trolls to troll! ...
If it is deemed absolutely necessary to feed, any chance of not quoting this one in particular so that the normal assertion & drivel doesn't show up on the thread for those who've used the appropriate filter, that way the current profile will be used less and new ones will be used ... again, and again, and again as has happened in the past ... that way we can all have fun playing the normal game of 'guess the troll' ? ....
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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This makes a lot of sense
20p/day standing charge & 15p/KWh for normal electricity consumption as is the case today
6p/kWh for smart BEVs and smart heating
BEVs charged at super chargers (mostly) feeding off the HVAC grid. This is roughly 6% more efficient than home charging off the LVAC grid but also means no additional load onto the LVAC last mile grid
BEVs might add as much as 150 TWh to demand but only to the HVAC grid
Smart heating with heat pumps and electric resistance (80%/20%) will add about 110TWh electricity demand (to both the HVAC and the LVAC) but displace 300TWh of NG demand.
Can the current grid cope?
UK grid has sustained 65GW so could move 240TWh/yr more than it does now (smart BEVs/heating making sure peaks don't pass peak 65GW or similar). So the HVAC grid will probably be ok (especially for BEVs)
Can the LVAC grid handle 110TWh additional demand?
Possibly because the LVAC grid is the lowest capacity usage part of the grid and we know the LVAC grid historically moved 30TWh/yr more than now so there is a lot of headroom from today even if it isn't the full 110TWh
Meeting this 260TWh of additional demand over a 20 year conversion would need just 2.7GW of offshore wind and PV per year (45% CF & 11% CF)
300TWh less gas demand
450TWh less oil demand
260TWh more electricity demand
Significantly greener than today
Greatly helped by variable electricity pricing0 -
Your 'utopia' is already here with the exception of the autonomous bit - it's the called the LEVC TX Black cab.4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North LincsInstalled June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh0
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This makes a lot of sense
20p/day standing charge & 15p/KWh for normal electricity consumption as is the case today
6p/kWh for smart BEVs and smart heating
BEVs charged at super chargers (mostly) feeding off the HVAC grid. This is roughly 6% more efficient than home charging off the LVAC grid but also means no additional load onto the LVAC last mile grid
BEVs might add as much as 150 TWh to demand but only to the HVAC grid
Smart heating with heat pumps and electric resistance (80%/20%) will add about 110TWh electricity demand (to both the HVAC and the LVAC) but displace 300TWh of NG demand.
Can the current grid cope?
UK grid has sustained 65GW so could move 240TWh/yr more than it does now (smart BEVs/heating making sure peaks don't pass peak 65GW or similar). So the HVAC grid will probably be ok (especially for BEVs)
Can the LVAC grid handle 110TWh additional demand?
Possibly because the LVAC grid is the lowest capacity usage part of the grid and we know the LVAC grid historically moved 30TWh/yr more than now so there is a lot of headroom from today even if it isn't the full 110TWh
Meeting this 260TWh of additional demand over a 20 year conversion would need just 2.7GW of offshore wind and PV per year (45% CF & 11% CF)
300TWh less gas demand
450TWh less oil demand
260TWh more electricity demand
Significantly greener than today
Greatly helped by variable electricity pricing
Without local storage though? Heat pumps are least efficient when it is coldest, similarly EVs do lower mileage when it is cold and wet. So annual totals may well be fine but specific peak periods could still be a problem.I think....0
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