New Western Red Cedar Fascias?

Furts · 1 March 2017 at 11:01AM

missile wrote: »

Which colour for good match to WRC? What issues do you have with Sandolin Extra? What do you think about Sandolin Ultra?

At one stage Extra was said to be a top coat for Classic, then later it appeared to be its own product but with less durability - I think it requires more frequent redecorating. I have always been a bit confused by what it claims to be. It is more expensive than Classic and does not contain as much pigment. It seems thin and insubstantial. Bear in mind it is the pigment that is needed to stop UV attack to timber.

Extra night be a good choice for cedar but only time will tell, and I have never checked this out. Cedar is a recent architectural fashion, that will fade away once all the maintenance issues get wider awareness!

gutovicky · 2 March 2017 at 8:50AM

Oops, it looks like Missile has hijacked my original thread - which is fine, no worries

But, could anyone answer some of my further questions about choices of timber and treatments for new fascias and barge boards, posted early yesterday, as follows:

If I went for a pressure-treated softwood, could that be ANY softwood - even local grown (south-west Wales)?

Can anyone offer me any more reassurance about using untreated Douglas Fir (again I can get local-grown DF)?

WHATEVER timber I went for - Douglas Fir untreated/other softwood but pressure-treated/oak (thanks 'capeverde') - should I expect to have to give the boards plenty of good quality wood treatment (Sikkens/Sandolin) in all cases?

And, if it's got to be wood-treated/stained before going up, should I be using KILN-DRIED timber?

Finally, should I be nervous about using UK-grown softwood - is it of a poorer quality?

Thanks for your time!!

Furts · 2 March 2017 at 11:58AM

gutovicky wrote: »

Oops, it looks like Missile has hijacked my original thread - which is fine, no worries

But, could anyone answer some of my further questions about choices of timber and treatments for new fascias and barge boards, posted early yesterday, as follows:

If I went for a pressure-treated softwood, could that be ANY softwood - even local grown (south-west Wales)?

Can anyone offer me any more reassurance about using untreated Douglas Fir (again I can get local-grown DF)?

WHATEVER timber I went for - Douglas Fir untreated/other softwood but pressure-treated/oak (thanks 'capeverde') - should I expect to have to give the boards plenty of good quality wood treatment (Sikkens/Sandolin) in all cases?

And, if it's got to be wood-treated/stained before going up, should I be using KILN-DRIED timber?

Finally, should I be nervous about using UK-grown softwood - is it of a poorer quality?

Thanks for your time!!

You can use what you like, but nobody on the forum has inspected your timber for quality, nor for speed of growth. Equally we do not know what aesthetics you wish to create - for example a log cabin will be quite different to a 3 bed semi.

I can only give principles/experience and Standards. UK timber, in general, is not good for your suggestions. Much is too fast grown, too sappy, and the growth rings are far apart.

No competent builder would do any structural work without using KD timber.

I would not entertain untreated softwood on barges and the like - it does not comply with Standards.This includes Douglas Fir.

The timbers must be stained, including before fixing.

missile · 2 March 2017 at 1:58PM

gutovicky wrote: »

Oops, it looks like Missile has hijacked my original thread - which is fine, no worries

My apologies. I have WRC and looking for advice. :beer:

gutovicky · 4 March 2017 at 1:14AM

Thank you Furts, your advice is really useful - I'm guessing you've realised I'm a complete novice.....

And Missile, I suppose I've been put off using WRC from comments made earlier on this thread.....
Has your WRC been up long?? Did you treat/stain it originally? How quickly has the surface shown signs of deterioration? Anyhow, good luck.

Thanks for your help folks, much appreciated.

missile · 4 March 2017 at 7:06AM

I have read elsewhere, WRC is good for 20+years without any post installation treatment. However, I am no expert and would not wish to dispute what others more knowledgeable than I have posted.

Furts · 6 March 2017 at 7:42AM

missile wrote: »

I have read elsewhere, WRC is good for 20+years without any post installation treatment. However, I am no expert and would not wish to dispute what others more knowledgeable than I have posted.

30 years is the design life, which is a conundrum when a home is based on 60 years. One always hopes items will exceed their design life and with care, and an element of luck, this is possible.

Your WRC is difficult to give definitive advice because nobody knows its full story. For example was it Canadian grown, or was it UK grown? None of us know this, and it is not possible to give an answer.

The likehood, based on typical home building, is the grade is not good, and the treatment with coatings is not good. That goes with the territory on new home buying and nothing can be done about that. Basically the same as my post above where I commented that the developer I was working for was scimping on the timber.

gutovicky · 6 March 2017 at 9:28AM

Well, that's the point really, poor quality work does happen, which is why I'm in this position.

So, can anyone else on the MSE forum, from their experience, give me any further options on what to replace my fascias & barge boards with - so that I can attempt to do as good a job (long-lasting) as funds will allow??
Type of timber?
Source of timber?
Pre-fixing treatment of timber?
Post-fixing treatment of timber?
Type of fixings?

[If it helps, my property is a simple detached, 3-bed bungalow built in the 1970's - and I'm not out to create any specific aesthetic..... We moved in last April, 2016. The painted softwood fascias & barge boards have already had repairs made to each corner - where fascia meets barge board. These repairs have not been looked after, so the wood is again damaged & rotting at these points. I've decided to replace the whole boards.]

I had been thinking of using Western Red Cedar since someone (in the past, on this forum) recommended this timber - yes, imported I'm sure. They advised that WRC is so full of resin that it makes it naturally resistant to damp & associated fungus & rot.
Unfortunately, this advise seems to have been contradicted in this thread (by Private Church for instance).
And Furts, sorry, I'm still uncertain what your fascias are made from, and what you recommendation would be.... you seem to have had success with your fascias which you describe as "ordinary pressure-treated softwood" &/or "unsorted joinery grade Redwood" - with lashings of timber stain & treatment on top. So, what precisely was the timber you used? Sorry to be a complete duffer......

Any further contributions, would be good.
Thanks everyone for your time & trouble.

missile · 6 March 2017 at 9:58AM

I am very surprised your painted facia board have only lasted less than a year :-(

Any boarding will require replacement if not properly maintained.
You may have noticed this thread? > http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5613034

I would suggest you use whichever material you prefer. Would it really be a big deal for you, if WRC had to be replaced after 20+ years?

Furts · 6 March 2017 at 11:02AM

gutovicky wrote: »

Well, that's the point really, poor quality work does happen, which is why I'm in this position.

So, can anyone else on the MSE forum, from their experience, give me any further options on what to replace my fascias & barge boards with - so that I can attempt to do as good a job (long-lasting) as funds will allow??
Type of timber?
Source of timber?
Pre-fixing treatment of timber?
Post-fixing treatment of timber?
Type of fixings?

[If it helps, my property is a simple detached, 3-bed bungalow built in the 1970's - and I'm not out to create any specific aesthetic..... We moved in last April, 2016. The painted softwood fascias & barge boards have already had repairs made to each corner - where fascia meets barge board. These repairs have not been looked after, so the wood is again damaged & rotting at these points. I've decided to replace the whole boards.]

I had been thinking of using Western Red Cedar since someone (in the past, on this forum) recommended this timber - yes, imported I'm sure. They advised that WRC is so full of resin that it makes it naturally resistant to damp & associated fungus & rot.
Unfortunately, this advise seems to have been contradicted in this thread (by Private Church for instance).
And Furts, sorry, I'm still uncertain what your fascias are made from, and what you recommendation would be.... you seem to have had success with your fascias which you describe as "ordinary pressure-treated softwood" &/or "unsorted joinery grade Redwood" - with lashings of timber stain & treatment on top. So, what precisely was the timber you used? Sorry to be a complete duffer......

Any further contributions, would be good.
Thanks everyone for your time & trouble.

I can only say what I specified, sourced and fixed. Little different to anything of, say, 30 years ago. Go to a good, reputable, timber merchant, or builders merchant which has its own joinery/pressure treating shed.

Get C24, KD, unsorted joinery redwood, which is pressure treated after being machined up to your exact requirements - drip groove, thickness, soffit rebate, and running lengths (because you want to eliminate joints). All cut ends must be twice flood coated with preservative, and coat copious coats of stain on all faces. I have done around five (I think), and capeverde has done six. So little difference there!

Give it at least one coat of stain on every face before fixing it, use good ss screws if you are a perfectionist, and expanding glue on joints - but waterproof pva will do a decent job.

Paint finish is always a dubious area but if you are confident that the finish is breathable/micro porous then that is your choice. I have used Leyland white exterior breathable - it has weathered fine over a few years on gates and fences but long term who knows what the result will be. With Sikkens and Sadolin the test of time has been passed.

Hope this helps!

New Western Red Cedar Fascias?

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