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Gladstones LBC help please!!

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  • hartynoll
    hartynoll Posts: 50 Forumite
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    I think I am there now:

    In the County Court

    Claim Number:

    Between
    X v X


    Defence


    1. It is acknowledged that the Defendant was the driver who parked vehicle XXXX XXX on the material date on the land at XXXX.

    2. It is denied that any "parking charges or indemnity costs" (whatever they might be) as stated on the Particulars of claim are owed and any debt is denied in its entirety.
    3. The facts as the Defendant knows them, are that the Defendant parked at XXXX on XXXX.
    3.1 The land at XXX appears to be a public road, thus the Defendant had no reason to believe that any trespassing occurred. There were no lines on the road and looked, to any reasonably circumspect driver, like unrestricted parking at the kerbside.
    3.2 The signage at the site was sparse and insufficiently sized for ease of visibility. At the time of the incident, approximately 20 other drivers were parked at the site, all of which received PCNs from the claimant on the same date.
    3.3 The signage at the site is prohibitive and no contract has been offered. It states that !!!8220;Permit Holders only!!!8221; are permitted, therefore no contract can be offered to !!!8220;Non-Permit Holders!!!8221; with the displayed Terms and Conditions. This is similar to the recent court decision recorded by DJ Iyer in the case of Pace v Lengyel.
    3.4. The displayed !!!8220;Terms and Conditions!!!8221; on the signage state that !!!8220;Vehicles must park within a marked bay!!!8221;. However, at the time of the incident, no bays were marked on the site, therefore making compliance with this term impossible.
    3.5 The Defendant has reasonable grounds to believe that Claimant is not in possession of the land and has no locus standi.

    4. The claim form itself is vague and lacks pertinent information as to the grounds for the claimant's case. The particulars of claim fail to meet CPR16.4 and PD16 7.3-7.5 and merely state 'for breaching the terms of parking on the land at XXX XXX XXX(xxx)' provide a date, due date, and an "amount" consisting of a completely unsubstantiated and inflated three-figure sum, vaguely and incoherently adduced by the claimant's solicitors.

    5. From the outset, the Defendant engaged with the claimant, and submitted a detailed appeal, which was rejected on invalid grounds. Once Gladstones became involved, despite the Claimant's meritless basis for any claim, the Defendant completed their own side of the pre-action protocol and sent a request for further and better particulars, but no reply was forthcoming. Due to what amounts to missing Particulars of Claim, the Defendant had to cover all eventualities in defending such a 'cut & paste' claim which has caused significant distress and has denied the Defendant a fair chance to defend this claim in an informed way.

    6. This claimant has failed to save their charge from Lord Dunedin's four tests for a penalty, which the Supreme Court Judges in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 found was still adequate in less 'complex' cases, such as this allegation.

    7. The Defendant agrees with the view of MPs in the House of Commons during the second reading of the Private Parking (Code of Practice) Bill in February 2018, who unanimously condemned as an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18) the practices of parking companies. Rogue parking firms using the small claims method as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support.

    8. The amount demanded in the claim is excessive and unconscionable and especially so when compared to the level of Penalty Charge Notice issued by the local Council which is set at £50 or £25 if paid within 14 days.
    8.1 Based on the excessive amount, the claim can only be recognise as a penalty charge rather than commercial justification, making this case easily distinguishable from ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.

    9. It is submitted that (apart from properly incurred court fees) any added legal fees/costs are simply numbers made up out of thin air, and are an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which would not be recoverable in the small claims court.

    10. It is submitted that the conduct of the Claimant is wholly unreasonable and vexatious. As such, the Defendant is keeping a note of all wasted time/costs in dealing with this matter.

    11. The Defendant requests that the court - acting upon its own volition and using its case management powers - strikes out this claim for the reasons stated above, and for similar reasons cited by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court on 20/09/16 where a similar claim was struck out without a hearing, due to Gladstones' template particulars for a private parking firm being 'incoherent', failing to comply with CPR16.4, and ''providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law''.

    I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.


    Name/signature

    Date
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,307 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    edited 7 May 2018 at 4:14PM
    That reads better IMHO, tells the Judge what it is about.

    I would just tweak point #8 as follows:
    8. The amount demanded in the claim is excessive and unconscionable and especially so when compared to the level of Penalty Charge Notice issued by the local Council which is set at £50 or £25 if paid within 14 days. The Claimant dresses up the 'PCN' to mimic a council ticket and this was on what looked like public highway, so the comparison with a real PCN is a valid consideration, given the facts of this case.

    8.1 Based on the excessive amount and predatory nature of ticketing some twenty cars, based on wholly inadequate signage, this claim can only be held to be an unrecoverable and unconscionable penalty. There can be no commercial justification for penalising drivers here, making this case easily distinguishable from ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which turned on a unique 'legitimate interest' which disengaged the usual penalty rule in that case only. This meant ParkingEye could charge more than a nominal sum in damages in that particular retail park where a free licence to park meant Mr Beavis (who saw the signs) had entered into a contract. In Beavis, there was no evidence of predatory ticketing (as there is here) and the case also turned on the prominent, clear notices with the charge in the largest lettering, including at the entrance. Not so in this case.

    8.2. Even if all the unfairly caught out drivers of the cars at this location on the material day - including the Defendant - were 'unauthorised' and trespassing, then the landowner could sue under tort for any damages. The Beavis case reiterated that a private parking firm not in possession cannot claim damages and trespass was not pleaded.

    8.3. The Defendant categorically denies 'agreeing to' any parking charge or even seeing any terms or signage at this location, and avers that this was not due to any failing on his part.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • hartynoll
    hartynoll Posts: 50 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Thanks to everyone for their help

    Defence posted today - let's see

    Am I right in saying that I don't need to do anything else on the MCOL website?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,541 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    hartynoll wrote: »
    Am I right in saying that I don't need to do anything else on the MCOL website?

    Yes you are right to say that.
  • hartynoll
    hartynoll Posts: 50 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Crikey I am leaving this tight.

    I've been away on business for the past two weeks, and have come back to a letter from court saying my WS etc needs to be submitted by 18/7 and I am away this weekend too!!

    Some quick questions please:

    - I have seen WS templates, is the content mostly the same as my defence, but quoting exhibits?
    - Do the exhibits have to be sent to the court AND the claimant by the date quoted?
    - Can I request a 1 week extension from the court?
    - If I can get everything together in time, post it first class on 17/7 but for some reason it doesn't get received in time, will I be punished for that?

    Thanks all, will get back with my WS shortly
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    The content is a series of facts, nor arguments, with references to exhibits that support your statements
    Yes, thats what the court letter told you
    No, this is your lack of planning, not their isssue to deal with. Any request will likely be ignored as they dont look at much unles you pay them to do so.
    Doubtful, as the C would have to show they have been disadvantaged

    HOw about
    Hand deliver to court 0- should be local to you - and emai lto claimant?
  • hartynoll
    hartynoll Posts: 50 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    "HOw about
    Hand deliver to court 0- should be local to you - and email to claimant?"

    Genius - gives me an extra day or two
  • hartynoll
    hartynoll Posts: 50 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Do I have to give exhibits when referring to similar cases? Or just quote them?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,307 Forumite
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    Yes. You have to file the transcripts, which is why the ParkingPrankster provides them.

    And you will want to file the usual other evidence mentioned in the NEWBIES thread where I talk about Witness Statements and typical things to provide as evidence.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • hartynoll
    hartynoll Posts: 50 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Ok, here's my first draft, how does it look? I need to add some more info about how I have been fully compliant with all correspondence etc..

    IN THE COUNTY COURT - Claim No.: XXXXX

    Between

    XXXXX(Claimant)

    -and-

    XXXXXX (Defendant)
    ____________________________
    WITNESS STATEMENT
    __________________________

    I, XXXX of XXXXXX, am the defendant in this case.

    1. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge there are true to the best of my information and belief.

    2. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

    3. I assert that I am the registered keeper and the driver of the vehicle in question in this case.

    4. I confirm that on the date mentioned, I was attending a parents’ meeting for the Ospreys under 16s elite squad in the Llandarcy Academy of Sport, of which my son is a member of. Upon approaching the academy, stewards were stopping vehicles from entering the car park, so I was required to find alternative parking.
    5. As I was also travelling with my 11 month old disabled son, who was reliant on Oxygen at the time, I had to seek parking that was in close proximity to the Academy.
    6. The road leading to the land at Heritage Gate, Neath appeared to be a public road, without curb-side markings, thus I had no reason to believe that there was any restricted parking at the kerbside.
    7. I noted when exiting the car and walking to the meeting, that a number of other parents’ cars were parked and present in the same location, with more arriving as I left the area.
    8. Upon returning to my vehicle, approximately an hour later, I found that a Parking Charge Notice from XX (also known as XXXXXX) had been affixed to my windscreen, advising me of my “contravention” for being “Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or permit”
    9. I noted at least 20 other cars also had ticked affixed to their windscreens. I did not, however, notice any wardens present who had or were issuing tickets.
    10. After noticing the note on my windscreen, I looked around the site for appropriate signage that refers to the parking restrictions. I can confirm that signs were present, but were sparse in number and insufficient in size for ease of visibility. I refer here to paragraph 108 from The Beavis Case judgement, proving the claimant understands the importance of clear and prominent signage. The sign referred to in the Beavis case is enclosed as Exhibit IL5. When compared to the excel car park sign – Exhibit IL8, I submit that no reasonable person would agree that their terms are brief, clear and prominently proclaimed
    11. After approaching the signage and studying the text, I noticed a number of confusing statements. Firstly, the sign stated that “Permit Holders Only” were permitted to park. This is prohibitive and suggests that Non-Permit Holders therefore cannot be offered a contract. This is referred to in the decision recorded by DJ Iyer in the case of Pace v Lengyel dated Exhibit.
    12. Furthermore, the “Terms and Conditions” of the signage state that “Vehicles must park within a marked bay”. At the time of the incident, no bays were marked on the site, making compliance with this term impossible, even with a valid permit.
    13. On 6th July 2017, I completed an appeal to XXX, as advised in the Parking Charge Notice, outlining the lack of clarity and size signage. Exhibit This appeal was subsequently rejected by XXX on 21st July 2017 and a letter was received by myself advising me of the fact. Exhibit
    14. Subsequently, I received debt recovery letters from “Debt Recovery Plus” on 12th September 2017, 27th September 2017 and 12th October 2017 Exhibits requesting immediate payment of the charge. The charge had been increased from £100 to £160 in these correspondences.
    15. I then received more letters on 30th October and 13th November 2017, this time from “Zenith collections Exhibits . I would like to draw the court’s attention to the wording toward the bottom of the letters which state “A court judgement or decree against you could seriously affect your ability to obtain credit in the future” I find this sentence both threatening and misleading, as to my knowledge neither a court judgement nor decree is applicable in this process, regardless of the outcome.
    16. I have very serious concerns about how XXX have handled my personal information by allowing these two companies, who I know nothing about and have no connection with, to, not only know my personal details, but to have enough information about my case to be able to send such letters.

    17. On 5th January 2018, I received a ’Letter before Claim’ from Gladstones Solicitors, on behalf of MPS. I replied by letter on 19th January Exhibit , requesting further copies of evidence in line with the protocol which came into force on 1st October 2017, in order to assist me with the claim in further detail. In particular, I was keen to understand details of landowner agreements in place with MPS, which would establish them as “the creditor”.
    18. However, a response from Gladstones dated 19th February 2018 Exhibit advises that believed that their LBC is compliant with the up to date version of the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Protocol, and no further information was offered.
    19. Again, on 25th April 2018, after receiving the claim form from the Court, I sent a letter Exhibit to Gladstones confirming my intention to contest all of the claim, and as a request under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure of documents mentioned in the claim. In particular, copies of the contract between XXXX and the landowner and proof of planning permission granted to XXXX for the erection of signage, under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007. To date, no information or acknowledgement of my request has been received.
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