Fire at Ex's Private Rental House

[Deleted User] · 31 July 2018 at 4:35AM

I have no experience of a serious fire so thought it might be worth asking on here.

My ex rented a one bed house four months ago. At the time of renting he told the LL he was hardly there as he works as a dog handler/security guard which normally means he is only in the house one day in seven (I was with him and heard this). However, recently he was away for roughly 30 days. It was a new area of work he hasn't done before. Just over three weeks into this (a week ago) there was a fire at his house. The fire brigade were called by neighbours but couldn't locate where the fire was (they had smoke coming through to their house). His house is on the end of a block, surrounded by fencing. No windows can be seen.

Its a bit of an unusual smouldering fire. Not a lot of flame, but there was heat and smouldering, it probably smouldered for a day or two and then went out on its own, which is unbelievable but apparently can happen. Absolutely everything in the house is black. It seems to have started in the kitchen, possibly via an appliance but started three weeks after he was in the house. The fire brigade have inspected the house, said that they find he is not at fault as even if it was say the deep fat fryer, it had an automatic cut off which didn't work. There is a kitchen window, which is broken, and a deep fat fryer/kettle next to it. The fire seems to have started somewhere near there. But three weeks after he left the house.

He is contacting the LL tomorrow. The fabric of the house is sound except for the kitchen ceiling (apparently it was ceiling laminate which is legal) which has melted, the doors of the cupboards were damaged and some appliances including my ex's fridge freezer because the laminate melted onto it and a coffee maker (expensive) he had in there. All othere items are just unusable because of the smoke.

Fire brigade warned of carcinogenic chemicals present in the black stuff so I stopped scrubbing the walls lol. They said the place is uninhabitable, the black stuff is everywhere, covering upstairs, the bed, the bathroom completely and obviously everything downstairs.

No my ex does not have contents insurance. He does have an incident number from the fire brigade and they said his LL could get a report off them. Apparently the property has an ancient wired fuse box but they are legal. We don't know how anyone didn't hear a fire alarm (fire alarms melted) so wonder if they went off.

1) My ex doesn't seem to get that the fact he was away for 30 days on this occasion could stop the LL being successful with his insurance claim. He also doesn't seem to understand that the LL probably has buildings insurance and that won't cover his contents. He says because it wasn't his fault, the LL should make some contribution. I doubt this is true but wonder if anyone has experience of this?

2) I am worried if in some way the LL/his insurance can try to claim the repair/refurb/redecorating costs from my ex in spite of Fire Services saying its not his fault.

To be honest, with our doubts as to whether the fire alarms were working, the general problems with the electrical installation, I am just glad he wasn't there.

3) God knows how the LL will take the news. I am half expecting the LL to say he has to find somewhere to live but not sure how to advise my ex to handle this. He still has eight months of his fixed term to serve.

EVERYONE who reads this, get contents insurance.

Smellyonion · 31 July 2018 at 6:09AM

Most tenancy agreements have clauses that state that a tenant should tell the landlord if they are going to leave the building inhabited for a period of time. Usually 3 weeks or longer. The LL could easily claim negligence under this clause - check your agreement.

Who do these appliances belong which allegedly caused the fire belong to? If they belong to you, then again, the LL will have a claim. If it's the ll, then you may be ok but he will still have a case over leaving it inhabited without turning everything off.

It sounds to me that you are trying to find defects with the building that pass the buck. The fact of the matter is that the building was left uninhabited for a long period of time without telling the ll and or agent and without preparing the building for a long period of being empty.

anselld · 31 July 2018 at 6:39AM

The fact that it is not your Ex's fault does not automatically make it the Landlords fault. Unless the Landlord was somehow negligent it is nobody's fault.

So Ex can probably kiss goodbye to his belongings and start looking for somewhere else to live. The flat is uninhabitable so the rental contract will be "frustrated" and will terminate.

As others have suggested, check any terms in the agreement requiring notice to be given of periods of absence.

Lioness_Twinkletoes · 31 July 2018 at 6:56AM

A cautionary tale indeed. I have home contents but am constantly surprised at the number of people that don't.

I think your ex needs to stop laying blame, contact the landlord and start looking for somewhere to live.

Incidentally, I do not agree that the landlord should shoulder the burden of your ex failing to adequately protect his own goods.

haras_nosirrah · 31 July 2018 at 7:24AM

Your ex won't have a claim over his contents. He had the option to purchase a contents policy and chose not to spend £8 a month to do so - unfortunately choices have consequences and the consequence of this choice is that he has lost all his belongings.

In the landlords policy it may well entitle the ex to another residence as this one is uninhabitable but there is still a tenancy. The insurance may pay his rent on another property while this one is still going.

Whether the policy is invalidated by the tenants absence I couldn't say - had the tenant been there then the fire would have not been left for days and the damage would have been less. Also to leave the property for a considerable period of time and not turn of appliances may be deemed negligence.

Davesnave · 31 July 2018 at 7:42AM

Your ex was unwise to volunteer detailed information about his long-term absence. It proves he had no idea about insurer's T&C, but why would he know if he has none? It's possible the insurers will use the long absence as a reason to prevaricate, but that ultimately depends on what their T&C are for cover if the property is unoccupied. Landlords can't be expected to track their tenant's movements, so I'd think their specialist cover would allow for that in some way.

What the rental agreement says about notifying long absences is also important.

I suspect the exact wording in Fire Brigade report will be pivotal, and none of us has access to that. I had a fire during a short (4-5 hour) absence and the cause was never officially determined. I was told verbally that it was probably a visitor's cigarette end falling inside the sofa, but that was not recorded.

The walls, floors ceilings etc could take many days to sort out and nowadays PPE will have to be worn by those doing the sorting. Cleaning before repair took two of us two weeks. The whole place will need redecoration, even where the fire didn't spread.

I have no idea what a 'ceiling laminate' is. When a lady in a flat below me had a malfunction in her electric fire many years ago, it involved no great heat, but something made of a polystyrene material melted. By the time we'd bashed the door open, it was impossible even to see a hand in front of one's face in there, so if that material was involved, say polystyrene ceiling tiles or similar, the potential for smoke damage would have been enormous.

Nevertheless, polystyrene tiles probably still don't invalidate insurance, nor will an old, fused-type consumer unit. It's the actions of people that cause most fires. Even in the matter of fire alarms, it's a two minute job to test them and then know whether they are operative or not.

davidmcn · 31 July 2018 at 8:25AM

deannatrois wrote: »

1) My ex doesn't seem to get that the fact he was away for 30 days on this occasion could stop the LL being successful with his insurance claim.

Well, firstly you (presumably) don't know what his insurance policy actually says, but is there a similar condition in the tenancy agreement? And in any event, is it relevant, if the fire could have happened during a (permissible) week-long absence?

He says because it wasn't his fault, the LL should make some contribution.

On what basis should they make a contribution? It doesn't sound like the LL has been negligent - unless, for example, it's the LL's deep fat fryer and they knew it was faulty.

I am worried if in some way the LL/his insurance can try to claim the repair/refurb/redecorating costs from my ex in spite of Fire Services saying its not his fault.

No, because it doesn't sound like he's been negligent - unless, for example, it's his deep fat fryer and he knew it was faulty.

pinkshoes · 31 July 2018 at 9:12AM

He needs to check his tenancy agreement ASAP. What does it say about periods of absence?

Most insurance policies want you to agree that the property will not be left unattended for more than 21 days. By accepting a job which meant being away for longer than this, so worst case scenario the insurance is valid and he could be held liable for the landlord's losses.

At the very least, this was not his LLs problem so his house contents being damaged is his own responsibility. If he had no contents insurance then oh dear!!

He also nees to double check that his tenancy agreement doesn't mention that he needs to take out contents insurance!!

saajan_12 · 31 July 2018 at 9:32AM

What invalidates who's insurance is secondary. First you need to look at

1) If the fire was tenant's fault, (through negligence / unsafe property they brought to the house) then they are liable for the LL's losses.

2) If the fire was LL's fault (through negligence / failure to repair after knowing about an issue) then they are liable for the tenant's losses (moving out, contents)

3) If the fire was nobody's fault (most likely) then everyone pays their own costs, either out of pocket or through insurance.

4) IF the tenancy agreement included a clause to inform the LL of extended absences and the tenant failed to do this, then the tenant is liable for the LL's direct losses of this (e.g. if insurance is invalidated then what the insurance would have paid out, not LL's unavoidable losses e.g. rental void/things insurance didn't cover anyway). He's not expected to know what would void the insurance, but he is expected to abide by the tenancy agreement.

HampshireH · 31 July 2018 at 9:33AM

In addition to your ex being in complete denial. He could incur a huge bill here.

If i was the LL and still a week later I hadnt been notified of major damage to my property I would be furious. The insurance company need to be notified as soon after the event as reasonably possible to assess liability and claim.

By starting to scrub walls etc and clean up without the insurers being aware or assessing it or the Landlord even seeing it in its original state could compromise their claim.

The fuse board is irrelevant unless it started there (which it sounds like it didnt) my fuse board is the original 80s install. It doesnt meet current install regs but is currently safe and working.

I would dispute the post above which says he hasnt been negligent unless he left his fryer on. If he knew he was going to be absent for so long he should have switched the various appliances off when not in use. Same with the water.

davidmcn · 31 July 2018 at 9:33AM

pinkshoes wrote: »

He also nees to double check that his tenancy agreement doesn't mention that he needs to take out contents insurance!!

I don't see what difference that makes - it's his loss either way.

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Fire at Ex's Private Rental House

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