TV Licence article Discussion

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  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    cw18 wrote: »
    I don't see why it would lead to advert-financed media. Netflix is behind a subscription wall, and I don't see them running adverts.....

    Indeed, if the market wants it, someone will supply it.

    Or we can go the other way, and impose statutory limits on advertising on the "new BBC", but allow them freedom to set their own subscription structure and rates.

    It's one of the elements of the cheesy lament of its supporters - worst possible scenario, irrespective of the facts.
  • Zapito
    Zapito Posts: 166 Forumite
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    The problem is that it probably isn't possible to do what you suggest - which is to keep the Licence Fee and have an enforcement methodology that is fair, proportionate and legally-compliant.

    The BBC is impliedly lying by suggesting that (a) it is possible, and (b) we presently have it.
    You are blaming the wrong people. The blame needs to be placed firmly on those who cheat and lie and game the system in order to get out of paying for the service they use. All the rest is weasel words used to try and justify the unjustifiable.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    edited 28 August 2015 at 5:08PM
    Zapito wrote: »
    You are blaming the wrong people. The blame needs to be placed firmly on those who cheat and lie and game the system in order to get out of paying for the service they use. All the rest is weasel words used to try and justify the unjustifiable.

    You asked the question. There's a special place in Forum hell reserved for those who ask questions and then dispute answers provided in good faith.

    Your suggestion is not how the Law is supposed to work. I have no say whatsoever on the activities of my fellow citizens, and it's up to the State to manage its relationship with me on a fair, proportionate and legally-compliant basis irrespective of what they do. More to the point in this context, it had better presume that I am not one of them unless there is any proof.

    TVL has the additional problem that (because of their lack of powers) they need to behave themselves or those of us that it seems to need to help it do its work will shut them out as we are legally entitled to. And then they will be really stuck.

    Or putting it another way: how does it help enforcement when TVL staff are rude or threatening to the public?

    And if you think any of those are weasel words, then I wouldn't want to be subject to any Government administration you were involved in. (You're not involved in Government administration are you? :) )
  • rizla01
    rizla01 Posts: 7,256 Forumite
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    edited 28 August 2015 at 1:18PM
    And here is a lovely reply to the very efficient TV Licensing bunch following an identical letter to one I received this morning.

    Att: Joanne Osborne
    Customer Services
    TV Licensing
    Bristol
    BS98 1AT

    Dear Joanne,
    I quote from your letter reference 3416771653 dated July 2012 (no date):
    Dear Sir/Madam,
    "You may remember you told us nearly two years ago that you didn’t require a TV Licence. As
    we mentioned at the time, we’re now writing to you to find out if your circumstances have
    changed. As many people move home or change their circumstances we’re not able to put a
    permanent stop on letters.
    The remainder of the letter similarly suggests that I either do not need a TV licence or that I do now
    need one and therefore must purchase one with all due haste.

    In response, I suggest that you may remember I told you nearly a year ago that I now did require a
    TV Licence, and that this is the foremost reason that I have been paying for it by quarterly direct
    debit ever since.

    I’d like to thank you for the excellent attention to personal detail that you are clearly paying to your
    customers, and for not making them feel like just another anonymous cog in the corporate machine,
    guilty until proven innocent.

    Yours sincerely,
    The present occupier


    Just as a point of interest and to perhaps quieten the naysayers, I watch LIVE TV and feel that as my partner and I share both our homes and TV viewing, that we should not need TWO licences, despite having two TV's. (She wouldn't refuse to buy one out of fear). We are both either there or here TOGETHER watching the box, but try and explain that to the TVL and see if they would agree.

    Then again, to be perfectly honest, in a dishonest sort of way, if I lived alone I wouldn't pay simply because I can avoid doing so.

    Just 10 more years and I will be exempt anyway, if it (or I) are still around in those days.
    "Unhappiness is not knowing what we want, and killing ourselves to get it."
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    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
  • JimmyTheWig
    JimmyTheWig Posts: 12,199 Forumite
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    Some things, when left up to the market, don't work out very well.
    They include healthcare, railways, utilities, schools and, yes, public service broadcasting.

    So I do believe that we need a funding model there the majority of people pay.
    As to whether that should be somewhat optional, as it is now, or linked to the ability to pay (via income tax or, as suggested earlier, council tax) I'm not convinced either way. Clearly either model has its problems. But I am certain that either model is better than leaving it to the market.

    [For the record, I don't need a TV licence and so don't pay for one.]
  • pineapple
    pineapple Posts: 6,931 Forumite
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    edited 28 August 2015 at 3:17PM
    Why should BBC have the right to charge a levy on all those who watch TV whether or not they watch BBC? Want to watch live TV? Then stump up the cash to BBC. Not only is it morally wrong, I'm surprised it's legal. Most people can see this. It's no wonder there is dodging and evasion. As for those who legally exploit loopholes, good on them.
    I don't get the Fisheries Department or whoever coming to my door to ask why I don't have a fishing licence...
    Times have changed since the BBC was founded. There are myriad players in the market and people now watch different media on different platforms - often paying a subscription. We now have the technology to make BBC a subscription service. It's the only fair way to do it. But not holding my breath. Because BBC will likely lose a ton of revenue if they go down that road and they know it..
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    edited 28 August 2015 at 3:40PM
    JimmyTheWig wrote: »
    Some things, when left up to the market, don't work out very well.
    They include healthcare, railways, utilities, schools and, yes, public service broadcasting.
    Those are all very different things, and your first 4 are very much traditional public services territory here, and in many other countries.

    Broadcasting not only seems quite different to me, and not only do many other countries survive without a TV Licence, but also I can see other industries where a public service ethos might be at least as relevant, but is missing. Such as Newspapers (to preserve print in the Internet world) and farms and food distribution (so we don't starve).
    As to whether that should be somewhat optional, as it is now, or linked to the ability to pay (via income tax or, as suggested earlier, council tax) I'm not convinced either way.
    They are not opposites - we could have both, and this would resolve some of the otherwise irreconcilable differences between the different camps of opinions on the BBC. A subscription but with discounts based on ability to pay.
    Clearly either model has its problems. But I am certain that either model is better than leaving it to the market.
    And what about a hybrid like Channel 4?

    TBH, a merger between BBC3 and E4 might be a better solution all round that what the BBC is actually proposing. I wonder if it has been discussed?

    I would call it "Three4". That's copyright me, BTW. :)
  • BBC-Died-in-1980
    BBC-Died-in-1980 Posts: 42 Forumite
    Yes, Iain to a "T" - a dormant 6 year old account, put to one side in the BBC PR dept, to be bought out as & when it suits (Charter renewal time again?) - you lot fool NO ONE - & never will.
  • Zapito
    Zapito Posts: 166 Forumite
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    You asked the question. There's a special place in Forum hell reserved for those who ask questions and then dispute answers provided in good faith.
    How can it possibly be "good faith" to completely ignore the context?
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    I have no say whatsoever on the activities of my fellow citizens, ...
    Of course you do. In fact, that's exactly what the democratic process is all about!
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    ... how does it help enforcement when TVL staff are rude or threatening to the public?
    I have already agreed that if there is a general problem then it needs to be dealt with. But it would be wrong to condemn the whole system just because some over-zealous enforcement agents have to be curbed by means of legal action. That is the sort of thing that legal action is for.
  • Chris_Bolt
    Chris_Bolt Posts: 2 Newbie
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    Now that iPlayer allows you to watch a programme from the start while it is still being broadcast live, there is some ambiguity in the examples. So does 'live' really mean that, or is there a problem watching the programme from the start (say time-shifted by five minutes) before the live broadcast has ended?
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