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    • DColley
    • By DColley 14th Jun 19, 8:24 PM
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    DColley
    Joint freeholder won't sign transfer to me
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:24 PM
    Joint freeholder won't sign transfer to me 14th Jun 19 at 8:24 PM
    Hi all,

    I have a LH flat in a block of 3 flats. The FH is owned by the other 2 flats, (original owner of the building and another owner - not present at the property)
    The owners of FH have an agreement that when I buy my share, the funds only go to the original owner of the building.

    8 years! ago we agreed with the original owner to buy the FH, but we still can't get the other party to sign the forms... I know we should have the right to buy our share of FH, but how do we actually get them to sign?

    In the meantime we need to extend our lease term - but we're blocked because the sale of FH is in process...

    We have been calling and texting - and they've stopped responding or taking our calls. We even sent them a thank-you hamper in anticipation of them signing the form. I would camp out on their doorstep, but that's an 800 mile round trip...

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Many thanks,
    Derek
    Last edited by DColley; 14-06-2019 at 9:55 PM. Reason: clarification, correction
Page 1
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 14th Jun 19, 8:27 PM
    • 2,666 Posts
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    Alter ego
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:27 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:27 PM
    Why do you think you have a right to buy freehold?
    Loose means not tight, Lose means something is lost, simples no?
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • DColley
    • By DColley 14th Jun 19, 8:30 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    DColley
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:30 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:30 PM
    Because we have agreement from the original freeholder... he's already signed the document.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jun 19, 9:01 PM
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:01 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:01 PM
    But if you only have the agreement if one of the two freeholders, you have no agreement.


    8 years! ago we agreed with the original owner to buy the LH,
    I asume you mean the FH. My understanding is that you already own the LH?
    • DColley
    • By DColley 14th Jun 19, 9:58 PM
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    DColley
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:58 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:58 PM
    Thanks for pointing out the typo - I've corrected the original post.

    But, the 2nd share-of-freehold already own their 1/3 portion, they don't own the portion we're trying to buy.

    I guess we're just at their mercy...? No legal means to force the process to a conclusion.
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 15th Jun 19, 5:59 AM
    • 3,336 Posts
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    TrickyDicky101
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 19, 5:59 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 19, 5:59 AM
    how much are you offering to pay this other freeholder for his agreement to sell? maybe offer more?
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 15th Jun 19, 6:03 AM
    • 4,925 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 19, 6:03 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 19, 6:03 AM
    Is the price you should pay for the 1/3rd of the freehold fixed?
    Why can't you proceed with a statutory lease extension? That will add to the value of your lease and cannot be avoided by the freeholder.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 15th Jun 19, 6:41 AM
    • 3,542 Posts
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    da_rule
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 19, 6:41 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 19, 6:41 AM
    Even if a freehold is owned as tenants in common and you want to buy all or part of one of the owners shares you would still need all owners to sign the transfer deed.

    There is a remedy of specific performance, whereby the court can order him to sign the document. You’d probably want to have an agreement in place with the other freeholders as well.

    Another issue is that unless the agreement you made 8 years ago was made as a deed you may be out of time to enforce. You can only enforce on a breach of a standard contract for a period of 6 years from the breach.
    • DColley
    • By DColley 15th Jun 19, 8:58 AM
    • 6 Posts
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    DColley
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 19, 8:58 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 19, 8:58 AM
    I guess we were really naive and we didn't know/realise they were crucial to the process. At first they were told they had to cover legal expenses (without getting any of the sale price), but we got over that by assuring them they would not have to pay anything.

    how much are you offering to pay this other freeholder for his agreement to sell? maybe offer more?
    Originally posted by TrickyDicky101
    • DColley
    • By DColley 15th Jun 19, 9:00 AM
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    DColley
    Yes, the price is only for our 1/3 of the freehold.
    The lawyer for the original freeholder told us she didn't want to do the lease extension - which we would have to pay market value for - when the share FH was so close to completion.

    Is the price you should pay for the 1/3rd of the freehold fixed?
    Why can't you proceed with a statutory lease extension? That will add to the value of your lease and cannot be avoided by the freeholder.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jun 19, 10:51 AM
    • 49,625 Posts
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    G_M

    But, the 2nd share-of-freehold already own their 1/3 portion, they don't own the portion we're trying to buy.

    .
    Originally posted by DColley
    I doubt this very much.


    It is very unlikely ther freehold for the building is split into 3. That would make the property virtually unmorgeagable as well as a nightmare to manage.


    More likely it is a single freehold Title currently jointly owned by 2 people in shares of 1/3 & 2/3rds each.


    Thu both current freeholders ould have to agree any sale. If you purchased then the single freehold would become jointly owned by all 3 of you. Assuming the current 2/3rds owner kept your purchase price, then you'd each own 1/3rd of he freehold. You would NOT each own separate freeholds.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 15th Jun 19, 11:00 AM
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    Tom99
    Yes, the price is only for our 1/3 of the freehold.
    The lawyer for the original freeholder told us she didn't want to do the lease extension - which we would have to pay market value for - when the share FH was so close to completion.
    Originally posted by DColley
    Even if you do manage to buy a 1/3rd share of the freehold that does not automatically extend your lease (or is that part of the deal?), you will still have a lease 8yrs shorter than when you bought the place.
    • DColley
    • By DColley 15th Jun 19, 11:32 AM
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    DColley
    Sure, but when we're joint FH'ers then we can give ourselves a 999 year lease - as the others have done - without having to pay 'market price' for the extension.

    Essentially, we're getting the share of FH for a similar price as the lease extension... 8 years down the line.

    Even if you do manage to buy a 1/3rd share of the freehold that does not automatically extend your lease (or is that part of the deal?), you will still have a lease 8yrs shorter than when you bought the place.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 15th Jun 19, 11:41 AM
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    Tom99
    Sure, but when we're joint FH'ers then we can give ourselves a 999 year lease - as the others have done - without having to pay 'market price' for the extension.
    Essentially, we're getting the share of FH for a similar price as the lease extension... 8 years down the line.
    Originally posted by DColley
    Not unless its part of the deal you have to buy the freehold. You will not be able to grant yourself a 999yr lease without agreement from the other two freeholders. They may well want a market price lease extension premium for doing so, of which you will get 1/3rd back as joint owner.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jun 19, 6:54 PM
    • 49,625 Posts
    • 61,619 Thanks
    G_M
    Sure, but when we're joint FH'ers then we can give ourselves a 999 year lease - as the others have done - without having to pay 'market price' for the extension.

    Essentially, we're getting the share of FH for a similar price as the lease extension... 8 years down the line.
    Originally posted by DColley
    Perhaps.


    But as explained, you will not be sole owner of the freehold, nor sole owner of 'your' 1/3rd.


    You will be a joint owner and as such will need the consent of the other 2 joint freeholders to extend your lease. If their own leases don't need extension they may want a market rate from you (as leaseholder) to the freeholder (you would receive 1/3rd of that charge in your capacity as joint freeholder).
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Jun 19, 7:14 PM
    • 31,374 Posts
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    xylophone
    Is there any reason why the other freeholder is proving so awkward?

    Did he simply object to there being three freeholders?

    Does he want you to pay a sweetener?
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