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    • woolythoughts
    • By woolythoughts 13th Jun 19, 1:45 PM
    • 210Posts
    • 177Thanks
    woolythoughts
    Dealing with undocumented inheritance cash.....
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 19, 1:45 PM
    Dealing with undocumented inheritance cash..... 13th Jun 19 at 1:45 PM
    Hi

    Asking on behalf of my friend who is in a right bind.

    Her father died a few weeks ago. Her mother a couple of years ago. Both were in their 90s and received state pension and not much else.

    She's the sole inheritor of the will being an only child. So far so good.

    The problem is - there is a significant chunk of cash in the house that is now hers. North of 60K. Seems dad didnt trust banks and had money stashed EVERYWHERE. I've just helped her clear the house we just kept finding it. 10K was under the matress, 5K in a biscuit tin. You get the picture,

    Seems Dad didn't trust the banks his entire life.

    Problem is, she can't get a bank to accept the cash because she can't prove where it came from. They won't accept the truth and are asking her to prove it.

    Any ideas?
Page 1
    • eDicky
    • By eDicky 13th Jun 19, 2:05 PM
    • 4,933 Posts
    • 3,033 Thanks
    eDicky
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:05 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:05 PM
    Did you take photos of the biscuit tin, mattress etc? (Not that it's any proof.)

    Are the bills all current, or some out of date issues? Which denominations, or various?
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 13th Jun 19, 2:05 PM
    • 2,603 Posts
    • 4,697 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:05 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:05 PM
    Is it in current legal tender notes? Or a mixture going back years? Not sure what banks view would be on exchanging old notes for new, or how much they'd change.

    If it was a smaller amount, I'd suggest spending it gradually, but 60k is a massive amount of cash!!

    Do you have any pension withdrawal documents/receipts to show where some of it came from??

    Can you bank a bit, little and often at more than 1 bank, and is that allowed?
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow " JOB DONE!!
    This should now read "It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts"!!!
    • woolythoughts
    • By woolythoughts 13th Jun 19, 2:09 PM
    • 210 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    woolythoughts
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:09 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:09 PM
    Some are out of date - mainly 10s and 20s.

    Seemingly he did periodically go and change notes when there were new issues - so there are quite a few of the new plastic 10s (not all).

    TBH - we think he's accumulated it over the years in lieu of a private pension.
    • woolythoughts
    • By woolythoughts 13th Jun 19, 2:11 PM
    • 210 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    woolythoughts
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:11 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:11 PM
    We did think of banking small amount - little and often - but figures that would possibly draw even more attention once the money laundering department saw it.
    • johnsmith1890
    • By johnsmith1890 13th Jun 19, 2:21 PM
    • 558 Posts
    • 456 Thanks
    johnsmith1890
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:21 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:21 PM
    We did think of banking small amount - little and often - but figures that would possibly draw even more attention once the money laundering department saw it.
    Originally posted by woolythoughts

    Ah, the Bank's Money Laundering Dept. HSBC has one - I guess all banks do:


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/12/11/hsbc-spared-us-money-laundering-sanctions-battles-clean-act/


    OP, your best bet is to drip feed it into various current accounts at irregular intervals and quantities. Talking of HSBC a couple of years ago I took in 5k (car sale proceeds) and they put it through a counting machine, no questions asked.
    • woolythoughts
    • By woolythoughts 13th Jun 19, 2:28 PM
    • 210 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    woolythoughts
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:28 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:28 PM
    She's self employed so does have the option of putting it through the business but then she'd be taxed on it (which I suppose is better than nothing)

    If she used it for living expenses paying cash where possible I'm 99% certain HMRC would open an investigation into undeclared income based on spending patterns changing.

    But I think a combination of spending, drip feeding and maybe a bit of extra business income might be the way to go. I just spoke to he on the phone and suggested if she needed any new large purchases or a holiday, to pay cash. Although she did poit out a lot of places wont take cash anymore! I know a hotel I'm staying at in a few weeks wont accept cash for room payments.
    • Section106
    • By Section106 13th Jun 19, 2:33 PM
    • 88 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    Section106
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:33 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:33 PM
    Asking on behalf of my friend who is in a right bind.

    Her father died a few weeks ago. Her mother a couple of years ago. Both were in their 90s and received state pension and not much else.

    She's the sole inheritor of the will being an only child. So far so good.

    The problem is - there is a significant chunk of cash in the house that is now hers. North of 60K. Seems dad didnt trust banks and had money stashed EVERYWHERE. I've just helped her clear the house we just kept finding it. 10K was under the matress, 5K in a biscuit tin. You get the picture,

    Seems Dad didn't trust the banks his entire life.

    Problem is, she can't get a bank to accept the cash because she can't prove where it came from. They won't accept the truth and are asking her to prove it.

    Any ideas?
    Originally posted by woolythoughts
    Is she trying to pay it into her own accounts, or her fathers?

    Strictly speaking the money isn't hers (yet), so paying it into her own account(s) could cause problems. Paying in small amounts on a regular basis is also not a good way of dealing with the issue, it can look like suspicious behaviour.

    She probably needs help from a solicitor to sort the estate out. It would be best to seek their advice on the best way of handling (and declaring) the cash.
    • woolythoughts
    • By woolythoughts 13th Jun 19, 2:45 PM
    • 210 Posts
    • 177 Thanks
    woolythoughts
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:45 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:45 PM
    She tried to pay it into her fathers initially - and was told she couldnt as she couldnt prove where the money came from and it wasnt her account

    So then she tried her own (different bank) - saying it was from her fathers estate - and that was when they asked for proof of origin.

    I don't think its going to matter either way - the banks dont want to take the money.

    The only estate is a house worth less than 150K and the cash/personal possesions - doesnt really need a solicitor if it can be helped.

    P.S. I'm trying to get her to sign up here herself but she's claiming I'm doing such a good job for her
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 13th Jun 19, 3:04 PM
    • 603 Posts
    • 816 Thanks
    Ergates
    I'd suggest speaking to a solicitor and or going back to the banks. The problem with trying to "sneak" the money into accounts is you're then behaving *exactly* like someone trying to launder money or avoid tax, so there is a high chance of being flagged by the AML processes and/or by HMRC.
    • Section106
    • By Section106 13th Jun 19, 3:04 PM
    • 88 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    Section106
    She tried to pay it into her fathers initially - and was told she couldnt as she couldnt prove where the money came from and it wasnt her account

    So then she tried her own (different bank) - saying it was from her fathers estate - and that was when they asked for proof of origin.

    I don't think its going to matter either way - the banks dont want to take the money.

    The only estate is a house worth less than 150K and the cash/personal possesions - doesnt really need a solicitor if it can be helped.

    P.S. I'm trying to get her to sign up here herself but she's claiming I'm doing such a good job for her
    Originally posted by woolythoughts
    If she doesn't appreciate the risks involved in trying to 'launder' 60k of cash from her father's estate through her business account then she desperately needs the advice of a good solicitor.

    It isn't that the banks don't want to take the money, it is that anti-money laundering regulations require them to take care when accepting large amounts of cash from doubtful sources. Attempting to bypass those checks by paying in smaller amounts, or paying it into other accounts, just makes it look more suspicious.

    If you really want to do a good job, advise her to see a solicitor.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Jun 19, 3:07 PM
    • 31,374 Posts
    • 19,452 Thanks
    xylophone
    She is going to need to get probate because there is a property involved.

    She could engage a solicitor to deal with reregistration of the property and ask about the cash?

    I am assuming that she will need to make a formal declaration of the cash found in the house which may help ( show no intent to deceive at least)?

    Re notes no longer legal tender - she might try a letter to the BoE to see whether they could assist?

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/exchanging-old-banknotes
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 13th Jun 19, 3:18 PM
    • 4,857 Posts
    • 1,593 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    She's self employed so does have the option of putting it through the business but then she'd be taxed on it (which I suppose is better than nothing)

    If she used it for living expenses paying cash where possible I'm 99% certain HMRC would open an investigation into undeclared income based on spending patterns changing.

    But I think a combination of spending, drip feeding and maybe a bit of extra business income might be the way to go. I just spoke to he on the phone and suggested if she needed any new large purchases or a holiday, to pay cash. Although she did poit out a lot of places wont take cash anymore! I know a hotel I'm staying at in a few weeks wont accept cash for room payments.
    Originally posted by woolythoughts
    Sounds like she is just looking for obstacles tbh

    Most merchants will take cash currently in circulation and the HMRC are unlikely to be interested due to the value of the cash / estate.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 13th Jun 19, 3:42 PM
    • 4,925 Posts
    • 3,464 Thanks
    Tom99
    Since you are going to need probate for the house you will be declaring the 60k as one of the assets requiring probate. You can use the info box to add that the cash really is cash.
    It may be possible to use a copy of that application together with the grant showing the two sums match to convince a bank to take the cash.
    You could also send a covering letter with the IHT form explaining your problem and asking them to confirm the information you have supplied about the amount of cash you are holding - I have no idea whether they would do that.
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