On-grid domestic battery storage

NigeWick · 7 October 2017 at 11:58AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

[ I'd have thought the world will have twice the RE capacity of today in 5yrs time, perhaps.

The rate the Chinese are adding solar and many countries are also increasing wind, you may (and I hope you are) be a little pessimistic.

Martyn1981 · 7 October 2017 at 5:57PM

NigeWick wrote: »

The rate the Chinese are adding solar and many countries are also increasing wind, you may (and I hope you are) be a little pessimistic.

I'm very much minded to agree with you, but I was a little careful in what I wrote as the world also has a lot of hydro, but that probably won't increase much over the next 5yrs, so for RE to double, the other sources will have to more than double.

If you take a look at the pie charts further down in this article, you'll see hydro 'only' increasing by about 50% by 2040. In fact its percentage falls from 17% to 12% of world leccy as the total leccy demand more than doubles.

Note PV goes from 5% to 32%, which is a 13 fold increase. :cool:

NigeWick · 8 October 2017 at 8:41AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

II was a little careful in what I wrote as the world also has a lot of hydro, but that probably won't increase much over the next 5yrs,

Is tidal hydro? If so, what about the type of generators @bobbyllew was looking at in the Orkneys? When they come on line, they will add a lot of capacity quite quickly.

Martyn1981 · 8 October 2017 at 9:48AM

NigeWick wrote: »

Is tidal hydro? If so, what about the type of generators @bobbyllew was looking at in the Orkneys? When they come on line, they will add a lot of capacity quite quickly.

Good question, I don't know. I suppose it's easier to separate hydro out to keep a clear head, though even that has two classes:
run of river - so generates depending on river flow
hydro dams - which must maintain river levels within min/max, but can also vary generation to help match demand.

Perhaps those figures in the graph exclude wave and tidal as the technologies are still in their infancy and quite (possibly very) expensive at the moment.

If the UK can pull off tidal stream, and tidal lagoons, then as you say, we could be adding quite a lot before 2040. The tidal lagoon package is worth about 12% of UK leccy demand, but I guess this will have a negligible impact on world RE levels.

But wave power, now that's a potential biggie all over the world, as the energy is simply massive, but unfortunately massive enough to break most generation attempts too.

Martyn1981 · 9 October 2017 at 1:31PM

Hiya, just to say that I signed up (free) some time back, for a weekly email newsletter from Carbon Commentary, the site can be found here, and I find it a quick and interesting read with a list each week of 10 "Things I noticed and thought were interesting".

This week this caught my eye simply because this is the third or fourth time I've seen estimates of batt prices hitting approx $100/kWh by 2020, so thought it a growing argument that we could see economically viable batt packages in the next few years.

1, Cars and batteries. Among the many announcements from car companies emphasizing their EV credentials, new forecasts from VW (see page 20,21) on the costs of batteries. The company projects prices below $100/kWh by 2020 (contrast that with probably $180+ today) and a typical range of 420 km. This implies an expectation that the battery pack will cost around $6,500 for a Golf in 2020. Also interesting to note that VW is saying that it will move away from conventional lithium ion to cheaper solid state batteries by 2024. In a world that is increasingly worried about lithium shortages (what we really mean is a shortage of low-cost ores since lithium is earth-abundant) this seems good news.

zeupater · 9 October 2017 at 6:55PM

Hi

The issue at the moment is the margin expectations of the home battery manufacturers and the supply chain ... I've seen plenty of mention of decent Li-ion prices, however there's absolutely no relation between these and what you can get hold of a unit for ...

HTH
Z

NigeWick · 10 October 2017 at 9:23AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

This week this caught my eye simply because this is the third or fourth time I've seen estimates of batt prices hitting approx $100/kWh by 2020, so thought it a growing argument that we could see economically viable batt packages in the next few years.

I see that some scientists are working on Lithium Sulphur batteries that are supposed to be safer, cheaper, more energy dense, faster to charge and longer lasting than Lithium Ion. Interesting times indeed.

EricMears · 10 October 2017 at 4:06PM

Countryfile this week (it was actually broadcast on BBC1 on Sunday but we only viewed it this morning) included a visit to a solar farm where they were storing generated power in what they described as an 'energy machine' rather than a battery. The rather vague commentary suggested they were storing electricity in water !

However, after a better look at the relevant bit of the prog plus some strategic Googling I managed to find out that was actually a on vanadium redox flow system sold by Red T Energy. They have a website with lots of pretty pictures but manage to avoid giving any details of cost.

see: http://www.redtenergy.com/products

Martyn1981 · 10 October 2017 at 4:29PM

Eric if you're interested here's a recent(ish) article on RedT (May 2017)

UK storage now economically viable, says redT energy CEO

and whilst it's not the exact same technology as RedT (vanadium redox) you might enjoy a fully charged video looking at Australia's Redflow batts which are zinc-bromine and have a smaller 'domestic version' than the 6ft container that the RedT 5kW/20kWh batt comes in, but it's still quite large.

Redflow ZCell batteries | Fully Charged

Flow batts were really for larger scale deployment, but are getting smaller now. However they seem to be very expensive, but the argument (and it's a good one) is that they have superior cycle depth and life expectancy, making them better value over say 20-30yrs.

Martyn1981 · 11 October 2017 at 4:53PM

Before we see cheap (or even reasonably priced) batts, we need demand and supply to ramp up around the world. So, good news from the testing ground (Australia) as domestic batt installs this year are expected to be massively up on last year, roughly 20,000 v's 6,500. And 2016 was 13x 2015.

Battery Storage Uptake By Households Surges In Oz As Grid Costs Soar

New data shows more than 7000 were installed across the nation in the first six month of the year – surpassing the 6500 sales recorded for all of 2016 – and are headed for a total of more than 20,000 by the year’s end.

According to the SunWiz 2017 Mid-Year Battery Report, published on Wednesday, the market predicts the second half of 2017 to grow by 50% on 2017-H1 figures, leading to total 2017 installations of 17,500. SunWiz, however, believes the figure could exceed 20,000.

Leading the charge to home batteries is New South Wales, which is home to 21% of installations so far this year. Queensland comes a close second with 18%, followed by Victoria, at 12%.

According to the report, the boom in home battery storage installations – most are being sold in combination with a rooftop solar system, it says, rather than to existing solar households – is being driven mainly by major power price hikes, as homes and small businesses seek to minimise the electricity they import from the grid, by maximising the consumption of their rooftop solar.

On-grid domestic battery storage

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