MSE Poll: Is a degree earnings-enhancing and life-enhancing?
Comments
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Our Sixth Form head pressured us all to apply, even if we didn't want to go. Typical of an institutionalized teacher, she said we wouldn't do well without a degree. I applied for the same course as a friend, not really knowing what to apply for, and to be honest I did really enjoy it, so much so I did an MA after. Luckily I didn't need loans, otherwise I wouldn't have gone because I wouldn't have wanted the debt and I understand about finances.
But was it worth it in terms of a career? No. I haven't got a job in my degree subject, I work for the family business because I couldn't find one as apparently it was too specialist (it was a Film and Literature degree, focusing on Film theory, not production). My friends who didn't go have had a mortgage for a few years, while us that did, haven't moved out.
Unless you want to be a teacher, lawyer, doctor etc., I wouldn't recommend going. Use these three years to get a job and work your way up, as you'll be at least three years ahead of those who go to uni in terms of earnings.
Besides, average earnings for uni goes is only 100k more than someone who doesn't go. Over a 50 year working career (for my generation now), that's only 2k more a year. Was that worth the 40-60k of debt? I don't regret it, but I wouldn't make the same choice if I was 18 again with my 25 year old experience.
Those average earnings are interesting. I wonder what the advantage is when you exclude those who really profit from their degrees such as dentists and barristers? Not very much, nothing - or worse off?“What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare0 -
Of course there are exceptions but speaking very generally there will be a ceiling on career prospects above which you are unlikely to progress if you don't have a degree.
I can't say I agree with this. Maybe it's industry dependent (although I work in an industry where 90% of people have degrees) but you can get to director level without a degree no problem, or alternatively go into consulting and earn a 6 figure sum. Some of the top companies won't take you on without a degree but there are plenty who will.0 -
qwert_yuiop wrote: »Those average earnings are interesting. I wonder what the advantage is when you exclude those who really profit from their degrees such as dentists and barristers? Not very much, nothing - or worse off?
Dentists, barristers and lawyers, even GPs, don't fall into the average earners, as they earn a lot very early on. You raise a good point, I don't think there is advantage for average people/earners if you take their loans into account. It just helps government figures saying people are in education for another 3 years instead of being unemployed.0 -
Dentists, barristers and lawyers, even GPs, don't fall into the average earners, as they earn a lot very early on. You raise a good point, I don't think there is advantage for average people/earners if you take their loans into account. It just helps government figures saying people are in education for another 3 years instead of being unemployed.
Why would anyone be unemployed when there are so many jobs these days? Hundreds of thousands of people are working away who can't even speak English.“What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare0 -
As a graduate who is still working in my degree area (Computer Science) 40 years after graduating, I would definitely say do a degree but choose the subject carefully with a career afterwards in mind. My own daughter chose film and, although she is currently working in that industry, she wishes she'd done something else such as zoology which would be more useful to her in her film career now!
Also I've worked on the candidate sift and interview side of life and the first requirement was always a degree or other higher level qualification.
Any candidate without was rejected straight away. Even someone I knew would be very suitable, but didn't have a higher qualification, was rejected immediately by the panel because it was specified as a requirement for the post. These days with an even higher percentage of the population graduating and job hunting, those without degrees are eliminated extremely quickly and a good pool of candidates still remains.
So a degree IS an advantage.0 -
I agree whole heartedly with BobbinAlong...choose your degree subject wisely.
My first degree was in a science......I was only really equipped to get poorly paid lab jobs or start further training and many fellow students ended up doing MSc's as they really didn't see a good future without them. I used my degree to do another degree...a vocation....dentistry. I was very very lucky, dentistry is well paid and I really appreciate how my second vocational degree impacted on my life. I got into debt to pay for the second degree but it was an investment I don't regret. Note I say 'investment', and just like any financial situation you should tread carefully and consider whether your 'investment' (student debt) will be worth it.
My advice to potential undergraduates is to think really really carefully about where you see yourself/what you want in life, ...it's not easy for all. DO NOT RUSH into doing any old degree 'just to get to uni like your mates'...you may regret it. If you are unsure about what you want to do, (many at 18 are undecided ) DELAY UNI.
In an ideal world many could have non-vocational degree subjects and then go onto a graduate job unrelated to their subject. The degree being irrelevant and used as an indication of your potential , ability and intelligence.However unless you're from a loaded background ( I'm not) and the bank of M&D can pay your fees, rent etc you should choose a non - vocational subject very carefully, or do so knowing you'll need further training ( i.e. PGCE) to get a good job.
Another important consideration that many A level students are unaware of is how important the right university is to some employers. Snobbery exists in education and like it or not a 2:1 in a subject from a 'new uni' ( Ex-polytechnic) could be turned down for the same subject / grade from a 'Russell group Uni ' ( older, well established and ranked by their academic reasearch output). Today's teenagers weren't every born when the old poly's became Uni's, so many are unaware.
I have colleagues whose children have applied to Uni being sadly unaware that the 'Russell group' exists, they ask for higher grades...because they're more popular with those ' in the know', shame nobody bothered to tell my colleagues children. Google 'Russell group' if further info is required.0 -
qwert_yuiop wrote: »Why would anyone be unemployed when there are so many jobs these days? Hundreds of thousands of people are working away who can't even speak English.
Because not everyone who leaves school at 18 goes straight to uni, or into a job. Some take some time out, some travel etc.0 -
I can't say I agree with this. Maybe it's industry dependent (although I work in an industry where 90% of people have degrees) but you can get to director level without a degree no problem, or alternatively go into consulting and earn a 6 figure sum. Some of the top companies won't take you on without a degree but there are plenty who will.
If you have experience, which 99% of graduates don't. And that's providing all applicants have the same degree, because someone with an MA will get it over ten with BAs. Too much emphasis is put on a bit a paper with a mark. You learn more in your first 1 month of paid work than you do in 3 years of uni, which could be easily condensed to 12-18 months. Mine definitely could have.0 -
Laundrylily wrote: »
Another important consideration that many A level students are unaware of is how important the right university is to some employers. Snobbery exists in education and like it or not a 2:1 in a subject from a 'new uni' ( Ex-polytechnic) could be turned down for the same subject / grade from a 'Russell group Uni ' ( older, well established and ranked by their academic reasearch output). Today's teenagers weren't every born when the old poly's became Uni's, so many are unaware.
I have colleagues whose children have applied to Uni being sadly unaware that the 'Russell group' exists, they ask for higher grades...because they're more popular with those ' in the know', shame nobody bothered to tell my colleagues children. Google 'Russell group' if further info is required.
That pretty much encapsulates what I was looking for in the voting options - but it wasnt there.
I'm in the early 60s agegroup and wanted to find a way to differentiate between:
1. - "real" universities and coming out with a "real" degree
2. - other "universities" and other "degrees".
In my era - it was basically "real" universities and "real" degrees and I would think it's been well worth it for those of my generation that went (which I didnt myself - long story).
For current generation then I'm guessing it's going to vary a lot according to which of those two categories they come into. I'm not sure whether they'd think it worth it for category 1. I very much doubt they'd think it worth it for category 2.
I can't think of any younger people currently that are in category 1. I do know a couple currently going through category 2 and am unsure about prospects for one of them compared to not going. The 2nd one is most definitely not bright enough by far for "university proper" and might just as well not bother to rack up the huge loan they are currently racking up and just go straight into the family firm.0 -
qwert_yuiop wrote: »Why would anyone be unemployed when there are so many jobs these days? Hundreds of thousands of people are working away who can't even speak English.
You've obviously never been rejected for a job for being 'over qualified'0
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