A little lost - weight training & nutrition.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

No reputable fitness professional would advise you on a routine for hypertrophy

I'm not looking for a workout plan, i'm looking to see if anyone here has the kind of knowledge i want to pick.



I honestly mean no offence to anyone with this but i was looking in the forum & for people looking to get in shape and lose weight i spotted replies such as "go for a walk" which make me wonder of the depth of knowledge. I'm not saying walking doesn't have its benefits. For a 500lb person who never gets about, simply going for a walk could be beneficial but i'd dare bet the majority of these people would not see significant progress (or at least not on the lines of what they're likely looking for) by simply going for a walk if you get me?




I'll roll with my issue and hopefully you or anyone else can help...


I started last year by wanting to feel more comfortable in my clothes. At no point was i bathroom weigh scales focused. I just wanted to feel comfortable. I'd started getting heartburn which i was sure was due to the excess weight. I was self conscious in my clothes which was a new thing to me. I'd gotten to 195lbs and i'm 5ft11. Sorry about it being in lbs but i only know that for entering the info on the gym machines.



Simply by cutting out:
takeaways
alcohol
chocolate / cakes etc
pizzas etc (you get the idea)
and switching them for chicken, fish, rice, veg, pasta, salads (and i didn't go hungry, i just simply changed the type of food i was eating).


Couple this with 3-4 times per week at the gym doing hard cardio 45-60mins at a time. Cross trainer, step machine, walking at inclines (i can't run with my knees), biking. I know some seem to say cardio is the devils work but i actually enjoy it. You (I) feel instant progress.



I dropped down to 168lbs and lost around 8-10 inch on my belly. I was happy with the results.


I'd already planned for year 2 (this year) to cut the cardio massively and spend time weight training for hypertrophy.



Again, i have no magic bathroom scales number i want to hit. I just want muscle growth, so if it looks bigger then that's progress.



My problem was i didn't realise at the start you also had to eat at a caloric surplus (it's all new and a learning curve).


I had increased my protein intake quite an amount. I worked out what i should be hitting roughly and i feel i'm there, but perhaps not on the calories intake. It ends up me just feeling like i'm getting nowhere and a bit despondent.




Which leads me really to the questions ...


1) I don't really know what is a realistic expectation in terms of putting on muscle mass. When taking the heavy cardio approach last year for weight loss i saw results quite rapid & continuously.

This year i've been lifting heavy 3-4 days per week splitting up body parts, increasing the protein intake via various forms and i just feel like i'm getting nowhere .... but as i know muscle growth is a slow process i don't know if i'm being unrealistic & impatient or not.


2) One i'm really curious about - what if you hit your protein intake for muscle growth but you don't necessarily hit your overall calories/carbs/fats ... what results can you expect?


I've tried looking in to that online and i just see comments like "u is stupid bro, just eat more 4 gainz" and i think 1) they could've at least also answered the guys question and 2) i really need to chat with British people.



I mean, will you see progress, just at a much slower rate?

Will you only build strength but wont put on any size?
Or are you totally wasting 100% of your time? Which is what i currently feel i may be doing.

Fiona_CW wrote: »

Does your gym have instructors? I am a gym instructor and regularly advise clients about this sort of thing. However to be able to properly advise need to know what you are currently doing in the way of training and eating. As Fire Fox says, the first step is keeping a diary.

The gym does have instructors yes but it's all extra cost and the gym is already quite expensive as it is. The problem is the cheaper gyms are much much smaller & you end up not being able to get on anything at the times i can go - so i take the hit on the pricey membership as i know i wont do enough outside of a gym.


The weight training is an easy one to answer. I'll go typically on a 3 or a 4 day split depending on when my work finishing allows. Mostly it's been 4 day. I stick to machines really as to be honest i don't have the confidence to go in to the free weight section with all the Arnold's. Plus that area is always rammed and that forever puts me off anyway. So i stick to machines. I understand incorporating the whole range is ideal so i'm limiting myself that way but as i understand it you can still see gains from machines.



Monday - nothing.

Tuesday - chest (example). There's 3 different machines hitting chest (2x push & 1x squeeze) & i'll do 3 sets on each, perhaps 4 on the squeeze as i feel it targeting the chest better & i'll aim for 8-10 reps on each where i can't physically do more (as in i don't just stop at 8-10 just because i feel like it). I'll also do triceps on this day.
Wednesday - legs & abs. Leg press & leg curl i'll go quite heavy. Leg press i'll do perhaps 5 sets. I don't tend to go heavy on the leg extension as they're not the best for people with knee issues (& i have plenty of that!) so i work within my limits on that machine.
Thursday - back & biceps. Again there's 3 machines for the back at our gym so i'll do it like i do chest in terms of sets & reps
Friday - tends to be a day off or if i go to the gym it'll be cardio or cardio with shoulders (i tend to neglect shoulders i know).
Saturday - swim
Sunday - chest & legs.
Monday - nothing
Tuesday - back & biceps
Wednesday - legs & abs
Thursday - chest & triceps.


Regards eating i don't really keep tabs to be honest. I tend to play it by ear.
It's a curious one to me because i know many talk about weighing out & being very rigid with what you eat to the gram/calorie and i can see the science behind this - which is also what puts me off.
But then i'll watch a channel (i take them with pinches of salt but some are very informative) such as Jeff's (Athlean-X) and his approach to serving up food is totally different. He goes against the scales idea & more for the sectioning off your plate approach. This fraction for protein, that fraction for carbs etc. Seems much more 'do-able' for someone like me if that'd work.


Anyway breakfast is always set - big bowl of porridge with bran, protein powder, flaxseed. I totted it up one morning to see how much protein is in the breakfast & got to about 40g.


I'll have a midmorning snack of chicken strips in herbs followed by fruit.

Dinner will, depending on the day, be a big bowl of bean soup or a chicken pasta salad.
Tea will vary. Chicken/sausage casserole, chicken/fish & rice with veg, stir fry & this will pretty much be the last meal of the day.

parking_question_chap wrote: »

You will achieve much better results if you get into the free weights, hint look at the physiques of those on machines compared to those in the free weights area. Plus they will work your stabilizing muscles as you are not confined to a fixed range of motion.

I agree completely.



Regards the physiques, where i go there's actually plenty of big guys on the machines too but i do get the point you're making. There's a lot of 'dabblers' on the machines who are just going through the motions. I don't intend to come across as being critical of others as i'm far from perfect myself but when you look at some on the machines you can tell they don't fully understand what they're doing whereas this is less so in the free weights section.

Done correctly free weights are less likely to result in injury.

I'm curious about this comment.


I'm assuming you're doing a fair comparison - so if the free weights are done correctly -vs- if the machines are done correctly ... then free weights are less likely to result in injury.



Why is that (if both are performed correctly)?


The whole subject fascinates me so i'm asking this from a genuine question standing rather than a challenging viewpoint.

So just try and forget about all the other members, they might be intimidating to begin with but you will soon realise they dont give a damn what you are doing or how fit you are.

True but then it's the classic like - it's not you, it's me. Well it's not them, it's me (& how i feel).

I once never had the confidence to step in a gym - but then i did it.
I never had the confidence to get on the weight machines - but then i did it.
It'll come one day i guess. Or maybe i'll just convert the shed :rotfl:

Train before work or late evening if its too busy after work.

If doing at a gym & not home then this one will be a bit of a problem i'm afraid. I just have to do the best i can with what i have to work with.
By that i mean i'm up at 5:30am to be out the house at 6:30am for work. My gym opens at 6:00am. I'd have to join one of those 24-hour gyms and get up silly-early.
The earliest i can get to the gym is 6:00pm on weekdays, which while busy is actually ideal. Once i get home around 7:15pm & do the jobs required at home i'm looking at finally getting a sit down around 9:00-9:30pm and although i should really go to bed around 10pm (so not much time) due to the lack of 'downtime' i'm actually going more about 11pm.


Which presents the other issue of - enough sleep to be ideal for growth.

Focus on a controlled technique with good form. You will grow more using this compared with picking a weight thats too heavy for you and swinging or bouncing it up and down.

Agreed 100%.

I've learned a ton from some YouTube channels. When i was starting out i was 'going through the motions'. Looking back i was making some glaring errors. One of which resulted in a torn rotator cuff (basically loading the shoulder press machine with too much and pushing up way too high like i was reaching for the stars.


There are a few channels i've learned from, some i've identified as poor info but the two i'd say have taught me the most are Scooby1961 & Athlean-X in terms of correct form. I love the scientific explanations of Jeff on Athlean-X where he shows you the why's and why nots so that you're informed. Looking back, due to channels like those & especially those, i've been able to correct so much of how i was doing things & i'm able to pay more attention while i'm doing specific movements on how i should be doing them, how i should be holding myself etc.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Anabolic steroids are rife in many gyms. See the World Natural Bodybuilding competitors for how large you can get IF you are lucky genetically AND are 100% dedicated to diet and training regime. These guys are true athletes.

True, and i'm honestly not in to it to be taking anything like that (don't worry i know you wasn't implying anything). Speaking of don't worry...

That probably reads as flippant or negative without you hearing my tone of voice and seeing my facial expressions.

Honestly, if i felt like i was anywhere close to 'right' then i may take offence to you critiquing but i know, especially as far as nutrition goes, i'm clueless really so when you say this is no good & that wont work etc i don't get offended.

What protein/ carbs/ fat/ calories intake are you referring to? Macros do not trump micros.

Ok i understand macros to be a ratio of proteins / carbs / fats etc but what's micros?


Anyway as for what i'm referring to when talking about protein - i read about various formulas for how much protein you should consume if you want to build muscle (in relation to your body weight). This varies slightly from article to article so i calculated it somewhere around the top 25% on the sliding scale which gave me the grams per day of protein i should be hitting.



Let's for arguments sake say it was 150g.


So i then take a look at the packaging. The whey protein for example - 25g in the scoop. The porridge was like 10g for breakfast, the bran and flaxseed could be like 5g combined for the amount i have ... bang, 40g protein, just 110g to go in the rest of the day (which would then mostly come from meats).