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Fire Safety - Communal Areas

Hi all,

I am the director of a company that owns the freehold for a building with 3 flats in it. I am one of the flat owners and I have recently appointed the owners of the other 2 flat owners as directors.

One owner has said she thinks we need to have a fire risk assessment for the communal areas (stairs, hallway and landing). I wasn't so sure. We're getting some radio linked smoke detectors for each floor but I don't know what else we legally need. Is there any guidance for a situation like ours? I'm struggling to find legislation for situations where the leaseholders are also the freeholders. I'm trying to avoid us needing to shell out ~£150 for a risk assessment. There's only a hallway and stairs, how much can you really do?

The house was converted into flats in the 1980's.

Thanks!
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Comments

  • agrinnall
    agrinnall Posts: 23,344
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    edited 17 May 2018 at 1:06PM
    I don't know the answer to your question, although perhaps your local authority can help, but I can't see why the fact that the leaseholders are also the freeholders would make any difference: fire safety in communal areas must surely be a responsibility of [STRIKE]leaseholders[/STRIKE] freeholders, whoever they are.
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 16,288
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    On this specific question...
    Strebor123 wrote: »
    I'm struggling to find legislation for situations where the leaseholders are also the freeholders.

    There will not be any specific legislation relating to that.

    As joint freeholders, all legislation relating to freeholders applies to you.

    As a leaseholder, all legislation relating to leaseholders applies to you.


    Here's an overview of a freeholder's responsibilities for fire safety in buildings containing flats: https://www.lease-advice.org/article/health-safety-in-buildings-containing-flats-obligations-and-who-pays/
  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596
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    agrinnall wrote: »
    I don't know the answer to your question, although perhaps your local authority can help, but I can't see why the fact that the leaseholders are also the freeholders would make any difference: fire safety in communal areas must surely be a responsibility of leaseholders, whoever they are.
    Don't you mean a responsibility of freeholders? It makes a difference because the only parties who have an interest in enforcing the responsibilities of the freeholders are the leaseholders. If they're just the same people wearing different hats and none of them actually cares then there's not a great deal of point in them bringing in external consultants.

    If however you're a third party freeholder who has a "close working relationship" with a fire safety consultant then I imagine it's very important that you charge the leaseholders for an expensive report about the bleeding obvious...
  • Strebor123
    Strebor123 Posts: 100
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    Thanks Eddddy. I've had a read through that and it says that !!!8220;!!!8230;take such general fire precautions as may reasonably be required in the circumstances of the case to ensure that the premises are safe!!!8221;.

    Does anybody know what defines "reasonable"? There are no communal doors aside from the front door. We could get a CO2 and foam extinguisher put in the hallway.

    The other doors are floors to each owners flat. Do all these doors legally have to be fire doors?

    I think the other person is just concerned that if we somehow don't comply with fire safety legislation then if there is a fire the insurance won't cover us.
  • need_an_answer
    need_an_answer Posts: 2,812
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    In the past I have always found the local fire officer a good source of information,locally they can arrange visits and advise in these types of situations where there are only a few properties and it is certainly a better option than going down the formal route of a written fire assessment.
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  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596
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    Strebor123 wrote: »
    I think the other person is just concerned that if we somehow don't comply with fire safety legislation then if there is a fire the insurance won't cover us.
    Unless there's a condition in your policy which actually says that, then they're wrong.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977
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    The RRO says:
    The fire safety risk assessment duty of the !!!8220;responsible person!!!8221; is to evaluate the risk to people from fire, taking into account existing fire safety measures and to determine whether additional measures are necessary.
    In your position I would get one or more of the joint freehlders to take on the role and produce a short written report. Google for examples. No need to employ anyone for such a small building - mostly it's common sense.

    Asking the Fire brigade to visit /advise might be a good idea.
  • teneighty
    teneighty Posts: 1,347 Forumite
    Strebor123 wrote: »
    The other doors are floors to each owners flat. Do all these doors legally have to be fire doors?


    Yes. But cannot be applied retrospectively, but should be mentioned on the risk assessment so that if the doors are ever changed they can be upgraded to full fire doors.


    £150 for an assessment seems quite reasonable, £50 per leaseholder.
  • Strebor123
    Strebor123 Posts: 100
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    teneighty wrote: »
    Yes. But cannot be applied retrospectively, but should be mentioned on the risk assessment so that if the doors are ever changed they can be upgraded to full fire doors.


    £150 for an assessment seems quite reasonable, £50 per leaseholder.

    Well. Just because it's not a lot per leaseholder, doesn't mean we really want to pay for someone. Especially since it is literally a hallway and landing and nothing else.
  • agrinnall
    agrinnall Posts: 23,344
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    davidmcn wrote: »
    Don't you mean a responsibility of freeholders?

    Yes, sorry, got my lease and free confused. I will correct my post.
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