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  • FIRST POST
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    • 35Posts
    • 4Thanks
    2018d
    Is this a polite rejection
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 18, 7:48 AM
    Is this a polite rejection 10th Mar 18 at 7:48 AM
    I re-trained last winter and have been speculatively cold calling companies to find work, even if it is initially unpaid. I had a one minute conversation with one of the 'decision makers' at a highly reputable firm. Below is the correspondence. I don't know what to make of it... is this a very polite rejection? Have I made a complete fool of myself?

    I sent this follow up email one week after the phone conversation in early December where he asked me to send over my resume.

    Hello,


    I sent a speculative enquiry (below)last week regarding an unpaid position.


    I wonder if you had a chance to look over my details.


    Please do advise me of your decision.


    Thanks


    Hi Sophia. Unfortunately we do not have any suitable openings at the current time. I will definitely keep your cv under reference for suitable junior roles in the near future.

    Best, Steve

    In mid-Feb I re-contacted him with this

    Hi Steve. Iím wondering, any Unpaid Junior roles? Anything I can do to better my chances?
    Best
    Sophia

    Response

    We really donít have any positions at the moment Sophia, although I definitely admire your energy. If anything suitable comes along I will certainly be in touch.

    Best,Steve

    I really hope so and look forward to it. Because I have research that I would like to show you then.

    Best wishes Steve

    Sophia



    Is this all just a very polite, time wasting rejection? I have had rejections many, many times in the past but they are usually direct and to the point.eg you need more experience, try again in a few years, we look for xyz qualifications.

    I also included a sample of my work in the initial email. I know that my work is 'competent' for a newbie, as the institute I trained with actually offered me job which I rejected as I did not feel I would progress in a learning environment as I would in a real work situation.

    Im looking for experienced opinions so that I can get some sense of this or closure and move on.
Page 2
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Mar 18, 3:16 PM
    • 3,137 Posts
    • 6,245 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Strongly recommend you stop trying to justify yourself and start listening if you want anyone to employ you. You don't state what field you are in but I cannot think of one where any amount of research (which may or may not have any value at all) is a substitute for a CV. Think how long it takes to read each of these then try to put yourself in an employer's position. They probably have three dozen of you bothering them every day.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 10th Mar 18, 3:53 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,422 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    He didn't have to respond back firstly, and secondly he even said ' I definitely admire your energy'
    I actually took it as a positive !!!???!!
    Originally posted by 2018d
    I'd take it as polite sarcasm, your energy being your refusal to get the hint and back off.

    Enthusiasm is great, but your repeated messages are pushy and show a lack of self awareness and professional boundaries. Leave it be now, do not contact them unless they contact you. Any further contact from you may well put you in bunny boiler territory.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 10th Mar 18, 4:07 PM
    • 5,209 Posts
    • 6,466 Thanks
    theoretica
    An exception to not contacting them would be if they advertise a job, then apply as normal.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 10th Mar 18, 4:23 PM
    • 5,855 Posts
    • 12,425 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Steve will be wondering why 3 months down the line you are still unemployed/not already on an unpaid work exp if your work is so competent and revolutionary...
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Mar 18, 5:42 PM
    • 3,137 Posts
    • 6,245 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Steve will be wondering why 3 months down the line you are still unemployed/not already on an unpaid work exp if your work is so competent and revolutionary...
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    I doubt Steve will give a crap or even remember the OP; I don't think they were irritating enough to be memorable.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 5:56 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    I really hope so and look forward to it. Because I have research that I would like to show you then.

    Best wishes Steve

    Sophia


    I just showed this thread to a friend and she in fact thinks my email above is me saying ok I m moving on and look forward to the day I can say no thanks.

    Best wishes Steve aka Go and you know what Steve

    OMG - this is turning into Shakespeare analysis!!

    Im hoping, as some have already done, for their objective opinion based on their professional experience
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 10th Mar 18, 6:07 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,422 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    I really hope so and look forward to it. Because I have research that I would like to show you then.

    Best wishes Steve

    Sophia


    I just showed this thread to a friend and she in fact thinks my email above is me saying ok I m moving on and look forward to the day I can say no thanks.

    Best wishes Steve aka Go and you know what Steve

    OMG - this is turning into Shakespeare analysis!!

    Im hoping, as some have already done, for their objective opinion based on their professional experience
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Your friend is being kind. You've told him that you look forward to hearing from again, you've got some "research" to show him. It's a bit like a desperate crush!

    Can I ask, is English not your first language? I'm wondering if this is why your words are overly flowery, and not conveying the professionalism you would like to.

    (That's no criticism. Your standard of writing is far better than many natives.)
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Mar 18, 6:15 PM
    • 3,137 Posts
    • 6,245 Thanks
    Smodlet
    If I understand what you are saying (I, too am beginning to think English is not your first language) I think your friend's interpretation is even further off the mark than your own. Why would anyone go to so much trouble to say "No thanks, you can do one"? That is not only entitled but arrogant to the point of ignorant, imho.

    You really need to get a clue or just go get a job stacking shelves. You might actually learn something useful like effective communication. I'm done.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 6:22 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    Ive got to say, I appreciate constructive feedback but when words like 'crush', 'bunny boiler' and ''revolutionary research' 'stacking shelves' makes me wonder what some of the contributors do for a living themselves?

    I ask this as if anyone had ever read, never mind written a research paper, it is standard practice to have an abstract, which for those ill informed is a synopsis (maybe if English is your second language, or you graduated from a non-Russell Group Uni you might want to look it up).

    But then I guess trolls exist on every forum
    Last edited by 2018d; 10-03-2018 at 6:25 PM.
    • Morganarla
    • By Morganarla 10th Mar 18, 6:28 PM
    • 659 Posts
    • 2,076 Thanks
    Morganarla
    OP, you sound very young and incredibly naÔve. Start listening to what you're being told, even if you don't like hearing it. You're going to hugely embarrass yourself one day soon if you carry on like this.
    • Wyndham
    • By Wyndham 10th Mar 18, 7:06 PM
    • 2,018 Posts
    • 2,316 Thanks
    Wyndham
    Ive got to say, I appreciate constructive feedback but when words like 'crush', 'bunny boiler' and ''revolutionary research' 'stacking shelves' makes me wonder what some of the contributors do for a living themselves?

    I ask this as if anyone had ever read, never mind written a research paper, it is standard practice to have an abstract, which for those ill informed is a synopsis (maybe if English is your second language, or you graduated from a non-Russell Group Uni you might want to look it up).

    But then I guess trolls exist on every forum
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Ah yes - the only Universities worth considering are in the Russell Group, of course. For your information, the top 10 UK Universities (on a variety of lists), often has at least 2 or 3 which are NOT Russell Group. Expand that to top 20, and you've got even more. I've worked in six Universities, and without fail, the Russell group ones I've worked for rest on their laurels and have systems and processes which really need work (and this keeps me in work). I've also worked for one in particular which is not Russell Group but which frequently ends up in top 10 lists - it has some of the best systems and processes I've ever seen.

    I appreciate this is an aside. But I'm also trying to tell you that a degree, no matter where it is from, doesn't mean you understand how the real world works.
    • Nothanks
    • By Nothanks 10th Mar 18, 7:08 PM
    • 121 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    Nothanks
    Sophia, you've said you want to move from Academia into professional employment.

    In academia being a bit out there is more accepted because your work stands up for itself if it's good enough. In a professional environment your groundbreaking research can be the greatest ever but you will remain an unemployed genius without commercial knowledge, emotional maturity and interpersonal skills.

    So far, you're not demonstrating any of the three in what you have brought here as far as I'm concerned as a hiring manager.

    But what would I know with my non-russell group education, right?
    Anything I post is solely MY OPINION. It never constitutes legal, financial or collective bargaining advice. I may tell you based on information given how I might approach an employment dispute case, but you should always seek advice from your own Union representative. If you don't have one, get one!
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 10th Mar 18, 7:20 PM
    • 3,232 Posts
    • 1,696 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    [I]I m moving on and look forward to the day I can say no thanks.
    Originally posted by 2018d
    You will, it comes with experience.

    I once had a thread in 2013 when I couldn't understand at first how a company had ghosted me, by 2015 having partaken the induction training twice round (not kidding) I no longer wanted to work for the company and could understand the 'first' Hiring Manager's stance on the whole you are not a fit! So some of us have been there. I also felt this way about a sister of a previous company I'd worked for and if you had asked me in 2016 oh boy I would have wanted nothing else but to work for the sister co! so time can be a healer.

    Now get yourself on Indeed where an employer can mark your application with 'Employer not interested' in red so everyone knows where they stand. At least there you maybe replying too a better chance of at least available jobs then what you are doing at present in the kindest way.

    Be careful when offering to work for free; some employers can take it as a confidence thing, that you doubt yourself or aren't really sure about job in first place so it can backfire.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    Sophia, you've said you want to move from Academia into professional employment.

    In academia being a bit out there is more accepted because your work stands up for itself if it's good enough. In a professional environment your groundbreaking research can be the greatest ever but you will remain an unemployed genius without commercial knowledge, emotional maturity and interpersonal skills.

    So far, you're not demonstrating any of the three in what you have brought here as far as I'm concerned as a hiring manager.

    But what would I know with my non-russell group education, right?
    Originally posted by Nothanks

    Academic research demonstrates innovation, entrepreunerialim, insight, analytical skills, research skills, commitment, problem solving, working in teams and independently, not to mention communication skills, emotional maturity and commercial knowledge.

    All reputable firms have a research and development department

    Most reputable firms hire exclusively from Russell Group Universities and actively state it as an entry requirement for any applications

    I actually would like to point out I was offered 2 jobs last Christmas season, which I turned down as I felt there was no career progression potential.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 10th Mar 18, 7:39 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,422 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    Academic research demonstrates innovation, entrepreunerialim, insight, analytical skills, research skills, commitment, problem solving, working in teams and independently, not to mention communication skills, emotional maturity and commercial knowledge.

    All reputable firms have a research and development department

    Most reputable firms hire exclusively from Russell Group Universities and actively state it as an entry requirement for any applications

    I actually would like to point out I was offered 2 jobs last Christmas season, which I turned down as I felt there was no career progression potential.
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Now you are being utterly ridiculous.

    What do you think the rest of the thousands of graduates do?
    • w06
    • By w06 10th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • 619 Posts
    • 917 Thanks
    w06
    Academic research demonstrates innovation, entrepreunerialim, insight, analytical skills, research skills, commitment, problem solving, working in teams and independently, not to mention communication skills, emotional maturity and commercial knowledge.

    All reputable firms have a research and development department

    Most reputable firms hire exclusively from Russell Group Universities and actively state it as an entry requirement for any applications

    I actually would like to point out I was offered 2 jobs last Christmas season, which I turned down as I felt there was no career progression potential.
    Originally posted by 2018d
    Ive got to say, I appreciate constructive feedback but when words like 'crush', 'bunny boiler' and ''revolutionary research' 'stacking shelves' makes me wonder what some of the contributors do for a living themselves?

    I ask this as if anyone had ever read, never mind written a research paper, it is standard practice to have an abstract, which for those ill informed is a synopsis (maybe if English is your second language, or you graduated from a non-Russell Group Uni you might want to look it up).

    But then I guess trolls exist on every forum
    Originally posted by 2018d
    He was politely saying no, and by his ?4th contact with you getting a bit frustrated with you.

    the above quotes re research and russell groups just made me laugh out loud, I think you may need to have a think about the way you perceive and project research, work and communication. In addition if you've published research of relevance to the company it's likely the person you're contacting is already aware of it ...

    (and yes I have higher degrees from a russel group uni, means very little about my "innovation, entrepreunerialim, insight, analytical skills, research skills, commitment, problem solving, working in teams and independently, not to mention communication skills, emotional maturity and commercial knowledge" , in fact looking around me the opposite to what you imply in many cases)
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 10th Mar 18, 8:15 PM
    • 1,887 Posts
    • 2,493 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    A standard piece of advice in the vernacular is: "When you're in a hole, stop digging".

    This comes to you courtesy of a Russell Group university graduate, some time back in the 1970s.

    You've not taken on board the advice given here, and seem determined to highlight your inadequacies as a candidate for employment. You don't stop learning after leaving education so I suggest you learn from the helpful comments on this thread.

    As an occasional languages teacher I am also interested in your use of language. You haven't answered the question about whether you are a native speaker of (British) English, and I'd also be interested in the answer.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 8:39 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    English is my first and only language.Not that for any reason it should even be an issue.

    Funnily enough one of my 2 masters is in Public Relations (First Class ), and my work has been published in 10 national media outlets. And I secured subsequent work from those editors.

    Most employers are impressed by candidates who have personality. I know this because I have previously secured lucrative contracts from high paying employers. I mentioned earlier I even turned work down over Christmas

    you as 'an occasional languages teacher I am also interested in your use of language.' should have noticed my question - I have never had a rejection this 'polite', usually people are direct.

    there is debate on this very thread about that,

    And I again highlight, at no point was this Head under any obligation to respond back to me if he was irritated. Many corporate heads don't bother because they are too busy.
    I welcome constructive feedback, but this is now becoming collectively abusive in a personal sense and I will report any personal or insulting comments
    Last edited by 2018d; 10-03-2018 at 8:49 PM.
    • 2018d
    • By 2018d 10th Mar 18, 8:41 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    2018d
    He was politely saying no, and by his ?4th contact with you getting a bit frustrated with you.

    the above quotes re research and russell groups just made me laugh out loud, I think you may need to have a think about the way you perceive and project research, work and communication. In addition if you've published research of relevance to the company it's likely the person you're contacting is already aware of it ...

    (and yes I have higher degrees from a russel group uni, means very little about my "innovation, entrepreunerialim, insight, analytical skills, research skills, commitment, problem solving, working in teams and independently, not to mention communication skills, emotional maturity and commercial knowledge" , in fact looking around me the opposite to what you imply in many cases)


    I can't believe anyone with such a poorly drafted message has any qualifications, but thats my opinion
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 10th Mar 18, 8:47 PM
    • 1,194 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    nicechap
    Some people don't appear to want to accept help. So I won't bother.
    ďNever argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.Ē - George Carlin
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