P4 ticket for parking on kerb

Nadsbmw · 16 January 2017 at 1:59PM

I received a ticket from P4 parking for parking on the kerb. I'm not sure whether I have grounds to appeal.... but am hoping that as well as the usual grounds used on templates that these may apply.

1) There was no grace period given ... I was parked approx 6 mins, ticket shows no period of parking to and from time.

2) Am unsure if it Is illegal to park on kerb which is not a public highway. The area in question is a estate owned by Bellway Homes and ticket issued by P4 not the council so surely this is private land and not a public highway and the parking on kerb rule may not apply.

Am aware shouldn't have parked on kerb but was making mad dash to collect my son from the park where he had called and said he had fallen and was hurt... wasn't thinking just wanted park and see if he was ok. I literally walked from my car to a bench approx 15 metres from my car helped him to him feet and walked back to the car again. I have no idea how the attendant was so quick, I only managed to glimpse him as he scurried away ... but feel that £100 for 6 mins is ridiculously unfair.

Is it worth appealing ?
Do i do so using ground on templates only and try to skirt around the kerb issue ?
Do i just suck it up and pay the £60 with the 14 day period ?

TIA

Coupon-mad · 16 January 2017 at 2:05PM

Just use the template appeal from the NEWBIES thread around day 26 if it's a BPA member (I can't recall!). DO NOT say who was driving.

No, these are NEVER worth paying and no type of (ordinary) parking is 'illegal'.

The_Deep · 16 January 2017 at 2:19PM

but feel that £100 for 6 mins is ridiculously unfair.

It is, but you do not need to pay a penny, even if you lose your appeal to an ajudicator, unless a judge tells you so.

How much would a Council want for this heinous crime I wonder.

Is it worth appealing

Absolutely

Umkomaas · 16 January 2017 at 2:22PM

You need to get photos of the PPC's signage on the estate. Do the signs mention anything about parking on the pavements, or is this a case of an overzealous parking chimp hoping to hit his bonus target for the month?

Nadsbmw · 16 January 2017 at 2:37PM

There is one sign as you enter the road ( high up on a lamppost and about A4 in size) which mentions parking causing an obstruction, but nothing along the entire length of road which is approx 100m long.
I guess the word " obstruction " is subjective. There was room for a pedestrian, wheelchair or pushchair to pass easily. I had simply mounted the kerb , not parked on the entire pavement !

Umkomaas · 16 January 2017 at 3:32PM

Nadsbmw wrote: »

There is one sign as you enter the road ( high up on a lamppost and about A4 in size) which mentions parking causing an obstruction, but nothing along the entire length of road which is approx 100m long.
I guess the word " obstruction " is subjective. There was room for a pedestrian, wheelchair or pushchair to pass easily. I had simply mounted the kerb , not parked on the entire pavement !

You'll need photos of the roadway to show there was no signage anywhere near to where you parked. This will be very helpful evidence for your eventual appeal to POPLA.

Get your initial appeal off to P4P around day 26 as per the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1.

DoaM · 16 January 2017 at 4:29PM

It is not illegal to park on the kerb ANYWHERE (except in London boroughs). It can be, though, illegal to drive on the pavement. (But you'd need to be observed in the act - your vehicle being stationary on the pavement is not evidence of driving).

On private land it all depends on the terms and conditions of parking ... it is thus a contractual matter. Bear in mind that you cannot contract to do something which is forbidden.

Nadsbmw · 16 January 2017 at 5:45PM

Unfortunately it was in London .......... Does this apply to private Roads / land ?
it wasn't the council that issued the ticket it was P4 so does this mean the no parking on pavement law applies on private roads / land

"Bear in mind that you cannot contract to do something which is forbidden. " Can you expand on this a little further ?

fisherjim · 16 January 2017 at 5:58PM

Nadsbmw wrote: »

Unfortunately it was in London .......... Does this apply to private Roads / land ?
it wasn't the council that issued the ticket it was P4 so does this mean the no parking on pavement law applies on private roads / land

"Bear in mind that you cannot contract to do something which is forbidden. " Can you expand on this a little further ?

Forget about being in London, on private land the ppc/landowner make up their own rules, (not laws).

If a contract forbids you to do something, they can't then charge you for doing it.

Nadsbmw · 16 March 2017 at 6:06PM

I'm just trying to hash together my Popla appeal against a P4 ticket for parking on the kerb and would like to know whether the grace period guidance applies to street parking or car parks only.
The ticket issued is blank where it should show parking period from and parking period to.

In their response to my appeal they state the ticket was issued correctly as parked on private land blah blah blah, but then goes on the state later that the highway code states that a car shouldn't park on the kerb or on a double yellow line - my question is can they cite highway code ? does the highway code apply to private land ?

Their response also stated that as I appealed before the 28 day period then i must be the driver as if not I wouldn't t have known about the ticket. I have been led to believe that this is incorrect but not sure how to word or use this in my Popla appal.
Some guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks

pappa_golf · 16 March 2017 at 6:16PM

yellow lines have no legal standing on private land

grace periods apply both to street parking and private parking , P4 are BPA therefore the BPA code of conduct states

13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a
driver who enters your car park but decides not to park,
to leave the car park within a reasonable period without
having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’
in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the
driver is on your land without permission you should still
allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave
before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period
at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the
private car park after the parking contract has ended, before
you take enforcement action. If the location is one where
parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end
of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

so there is a grace period upon entering the site , and a further onec on leaving

P4 ticket for parking on kerb

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