TV Licence article Discussion

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  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    FreeBear wrote: »
    They do that already. If an address doesn't have a TV licence, then by default, they think you're watching broadcast TV. Hence the endless stream of harassing letters claiming to be "investigating" a criminal offence.

    I should say (and I do not say it lightly) that I believe that the BBC's approach is fundamentally unlawful. In particular, a public authority is forbidden from interfering with the privacy (at home) of members of the public without suitable authority in law. That authority must be more than simply sitting in the bottom of a disused filing cabinet - it must be published, and the rules applying to citizens must be clear and understandable (amongst other things).

    Based on what I know of BBC-TV Licensing, there are two issues: 1) that they do not have authority in law, and 2) that they do not publish the authority in law that they claim they have.
  • FreeBear
    FreeBear Posts: 14,617 Forumite
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    Cornucopia wrote: »
    Based on what I know of BBC-TV Licensing, there are two issues: 1) that they do not have authority in law, and 2) that they do not publish the authority in law that they claim they have.

    If they did have the legal authority to investigate breaches of the licencing laws, then they would have to conduct themselves to the same standards as the police. So if no evidence of wrong doing was found, then that would be the end of the "investigation". None of this three month cycle of "investigation started", "if you are found guilty, penalty of..." and so on.

    Capita, operating under the trading name of TV Licencing (owned by the BBC), is openly engaged in harassment - This is not going to stop unless sufficient numbers of people sue both parties through the courts.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
  • radoslaff
    radoslaff Posts: 168 Forumite
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    The motherf...s keep harassing me for years. I moved to the UK 2.5 years ago and ever since I haven't watched a single second of live TV transmittal and I've never had a TV set. So after being harassed by them for about six months I sent them a declaration with these facts and they were supposed to leave me alone for 2 years (according to their letter). A couple of months later it all started again. So I started to bin their letters and whenever somebody knocked on my door I just sent them away. Recently I moved into a new house and the funny thing is that there are THREE satellite dishes on the roof of this house that I inherited from the previous owners and the first TVL letter already went to the bin. I'm waiting for them to knock on my door any moment so I can have some fun. No matter what I say or do I can't afford to sue them in court myself but I would certainly join if there was a class action against them. What the do is extortionate.
    The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    edited 4 October 2018 at 4:47PM
    One of the pernicious things about BBC-TV Licensing is that they conduct themselves as if citizens are powerless against them.

    But that isn't true.

    There are a variety of legal gambits that can be used against them to achieve different effects, and with different pros and cons involved. The only real question is which to choose, if any, on the basis that even taking time out of your day to deal with them seems wrong.

    I am currently in the situation where, having made a number of observations about PACE non-compliance, they have banned TV Licensing from contacting me. This seems to be an indefinite ban.

    Another person I am aware of submitted a schedule of charges to TVL based on the reasonable costs of dealing with their nonsense, and when they persisted in annoying him, he submitted an invoice, and when they didn't pay, successfully sued them under the Small Claims Process. They no longer bother him.

    So there are things that can be done, short of an expensive direct legal challenge.

    Both of these cases indicate that TVL have a database of addresses that they are barred from harassing (as you might expect). The only question is: how to get on that list?
  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
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    Cornucopia wrote: »
    Both of these cases indicate that TVL have a database of addresses that they are barred from harassing (as you might expect). The only question is: how to get on that list?
    I've been advised by TVL that the most effective way of getting onto that particular list is to give them £150.50 per annum, in exchange for which they will ensure your name is listed, and they will stop harassing you. ;)

    My initial approach is going to be sending the TVL letters on to my MP, with a letter asking them to look into the issue of TVL harassment. They regularly leave 'freepost' envelopes inviting constituents to write in with any issues, so it won't be costing me.

    I doubt it will achieve much, but it will at least share the harassment with someone else :)

    I'm also tempted to go with the "schedule of charges" type approach. I think I've seen information posted on the internet from the person you are talking about (or someone doing a similar thing)... if nothing else it should provide a bit of amusement for the cold winter evenings. :)
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
  • FreeBear
    FreeBear Posts: 14,617 Forumite
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    EachPenny wrote: »
    I've been advised by TVL that the most effective way of getting onto that particular list is to give them £150.50 per annum, in exchange for which they will ensure your name is listed, and they will stop harassing you. ;)

    Therein lies a problem, one that is common to the two solutions that Cornucopia offers up. You are giving them your name.

    Without a name, their threats hold no power and they can do nothing more than send letters addresses to "The Occupier".
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    edited 5 October 2018 at 9:09AM
    This is the thing about BBC-TV Licensing - their malpractice drags you in, and it is designed to drag you in.

    Whilst it's true that the legal strategies are best when accompanied by a name, it doesn't have to be a real name (just a plausible one). So whilst I think that the risks involved in giving them your real name are slight and somewhat theoretical, there are ways around it if you are concerned.

    There is a further benefit to giving a false name or a recognisable corruption of your real name, which is that they will use that name when they contact you, so you can tell immediately that it is them.

    There are a couple of other perceptions of BBC-TVL that I have: 1) they are the classic "weakened animal" that is more dangerous and less predictable because of that weakness, and 2) the polite, legalistic dialog that one might have with TVL and BBC staff at "head office" is a world away from the more fractious, less well-informed dialogs that take place on the doorstep.
  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
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    FreeBear wrote: »
    Therein lies a problem, one that is common to the two solutions that Cornucopia offers up. You are giving them your name.

    Without a name, their threats hold no power and they can do nothing more than send letters addresses to "The Occupier".
    For people like me and others who have gone LLF after years of paying, this is a moot point. They already have our names and they are assuming we still occupy the property.

    I would guess that after a while of 'returning to sender' they might switch tactics to writing to "The Occupier", but it would be a relatively simple task for them to confirm the named former licence holder was still living at the address (without cooperation of that person being required).
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
  • castle96
    castle96 Posts: 2,885 Forumite
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    Hi,
    does TVL have any ability to obtain info from Sky ? Ie, if you have Sky (may of course only be for b/band), then you 'must' have TV/Sky
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,154 Forumite
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    castle96 wrote: »
    Hi,
    does TVL have any ability to obtain info from Sky ? Ie, if you have Sky (may of course only be for b/band), then you 'must' have TV/Sky

    There was some discussion of this - giving the BBC an official remit to demand subscriber information from Pay TV providers - but I'm not sure what has happened to it, if anything.

    It could only be done if data was strictly tied to TV subscriptions, and there was no danger of BB-only customer details being passed over. Even then, it raises awkward questions for TVL - I subscribe to Now TV for TV and BB, but it doesn't make me an Evader, quite the opposite.
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