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NW Parking Management - Not parking within marked within markings

Torslanda
Torslanda Posts: 14 Forumite
First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
edited 19 September 2018 at 7:40PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi all,

Newbie here, but I have read the newbies post and have a good idea what to do, but I have a few specific questions I'm hoping some of you might be able to help with, so I hope it's OK to start this thread.
[Sorry, as a new user I can't post full links]

The background is that my car was parked in Carlisle on a private car park and I have received a NTK for the alleged infraction of "not being parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space". I can't find too many examples of this on the forums here. Please see below images of the NTK and their photographs of my car. I have heavily redacted and anonymised these as I know that the PPCs monitor these forums. However, as you'll see, the only wheel that is over the white line is no more than about 4cm over. Furthermore, this was an end space and no vehicle could have parked on that side of my vehicle. In fact, if anything, this could only have maximised vehicular access for the vehicle next to my car. Please also see Google Street Maps image below of the car park and the space in question. The space was the one occupied by the grey Audi in that photograph, and as my vehicle had been reversed in, the wheel which was over the line was in the position of the Audi's front near side wheel in that photo.

Google Street Map image of car park and space: postimg.cc/image/espg3stwb/
PCN page 1: postimg.cc/image/tnwf109vv/
PCN page 2: postimg.cc/image/828yudegb/
PCN photos of car: postimg.cc/image/5k5nci1mz/
Car park signs 1: postimg.cc/image/r8m5xo59n/
Car park signs 2: postimg.cc/image/glscs9k9n/
Car park signs 3: postimg.cc/image/718q5dfi3/
Car park signs 4: postimg.cc/image/718q5dfi3/

My contention is therefore that a 4cm overhang was not reasonable grounds to invoke a condition requiring the driver to "park correctly within the markings" and that it was issued by an overzealous parking attendant motivated more by profiteering than proper management of the car park, who did not apply the discretion that a reasonable person would do under the circumstances. In short, it was unreasonable, and my defence is one of de minimis (padi.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006354853-De-Minimis).

During my research I also found this Guardian article (theguardian.com/money/2013/apr/18/how-challenge-parking-ticket) which states:
[FONT=&quot]Check that any Notice to the Registered Keeper was sent out more than 28 days after the parking ticket was issued. If it was sent earlier then the parking company cannot sue the registered keeper for any alleged parking charges. If the parking company requested that the DVLA provide the name and address of the registered keeper earlier than 28 days after issuing a ticket, it cannot sue the registered keeper. It also may be a breach of the Data Protection Act, for which the DVLA may be liable.[/FONT]
In my case, they do not know who the driver was, and the NTK was sent 3 days after the alleged transgression.

I'm also intending to hit them with a GDPR Subject Access Request.

I'm currently preparing the initial 'appeal' but in the meantime would be grateful for any advice on the following:


  1. How winnable is this?
  2. What do the Guardian mean by "NTK must be after 28 days"? Mine was well within this. What statute or case law are they referring to and how do I use this in my defence?
  3. When should I issue the GDPR SAR? At the same time as the initial appeal (i.e. go nuclear and hit them with everything at once to let them know this is going to be difficult)? Or after they have rejected my initial appeal (by which time they are likely to be out of time to comply with Article 14 anyway)?
  4. Do you think my SAR could be considered "manifestly unfounded or excessive" and that they could ignore it on those grounds? Should I tone it down a bit?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.
«1

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,465 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Have you read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?

    Have you sent an initial appeal to the PPC?

    Was there a windscreen Notice to Driver?
  • Torslanda
    Torslanda Posts: 14 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Have you read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?
    Yes.
    Have you sent an initial appeal to the PPC?
    Not yet. I came here first. :-) But I am preparing it.
    Was there a windscreen Notice to Driver
    No.
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    There is no preparation required for the initial appeal.

    Copy the template!
  • hard to see how an ANPR camera was able to see the car parked over a line

    "the NTK was sent 3 days after the alleged transgression. "


    was a ticket placed on the car?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,465 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 12 August 2018 at 2:29PM
    As there was no windscreen ticket, that 28 days mentioned by the Guardian is not relevant.
    In your case they have to get the NtK to the Keeper within fourteen days of the incident and have done so.

    Just send the blue text template appeal to the PPC.

    Send it as it is.
    Send it as the keeper.

    That's all there is to it at this stage.
  • Torslanda wrote: »
    Yes.

    Not yet. I came here first. :-) But I am preparing it.


    was there a windscreen ticket
    No.


    so , how did an automated camera spot the incident

    ANPR camera photos being shown in court would result in a laugh
  • Torslanda
    Torslanda Posts: 14 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Thanks Quentin. Shall I include the aggressive part:

    Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).
    ... or is that likely to just annoy them and make them dig their heels in?


    Also:

    I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner,
    ... I don't know who the landowner is. It was just a car park (not a store, retail park, hospital etc. car park).
  • Torslanda
    Torslanda Posts: 14 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Thanks twhitehousecat,


    I'm sure it wasn't an ANPR as I have been back since and looked around the car park. There are no cameras. I believe it was an 'on foot' attendant snooping around checking tickets and taking photographs of anything he/she thought could make them some extra money.
  • Torslanda wrote: »
    Thanks Quentin. Shall I include the aggressive part:



    ... or is that likely to just annoy them and make them dig their heels in?


    Also:



    ... I don't know who the landowner is. It was just a car park (not a store, retail park, hospital etc. car park).



    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74649885&postcount=6
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    Gosh... I love reading these forums but it never amazes me to observe human nature and the inability to process information properly...
    KeithP wrote: »
    Just send the blue text template appeal to the PPC.

    Send it as it is.
    Send it as the keeper.

    That's all there is to it at this stage.
    Torslanda wrote: »
    Thanks Quentin. Shall I include the aggressive part:

    ... or is that likely to just annoy them and make them dig their heels in?
This discussion has been closed.
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