What is a bedroom ? and is it a tax ?
Options
Richie-from-the-Boro
Posts: 6,945 Forumite
- it is .. .. a tax,but what is a bedroom ?
- if it was a window or even an outside toilet, if money is attached to it by our legislators .. .. its a tax
Then come the more interesting questions for those who must interpret the legislation :
- what is a room ?, and ;
- what is a bedroom ?
Then come the even more interesting questions for those who must [localism bill] collect the tax locally as a result of the legislation :
- a kitchen in Londoncentric terms is a small single person cooking room, but ;
- a kitchen in Yorkshire terms is a room where many people congregate and 'live'
HMO's define a bedroom a 71 square feet, but what is a bedroom for Housing Benefit purposes ?. Freud himself said he would not define what a bedroom is for the purposes of the policy. A new tranche of appeals coming in the near future perhaps ?. We know what a dwelling is !
- if it was a window or even an outside toilet, if money is attached to it by our legislators .. .. its a tax
Then come the more interesting questions for those who must interpret the legislation :
- what is a room ?, and ;
- what is a bedroom ?
Then come the even more interesting questions for those who must [localism bill] collect the tax locally as a result of the legislation :
- a kitchen in Londoncentric terms is a small single person cooking room, but ;
- a kitchen in Yorkshire terms is a room where many people congregate and 'live'
HMO's define a bedroom a 71 square feet, but what is a bedroom for Housing Benefit purposes ?. Freud himself said he would not define what a bedroom is for the purposes of the policy. A new tranche of appeals coming in the near future perhaps ?. We know what a dwelling is !
Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
0
Comments
-
I think that a bedroom is a room with a bed in it. We have 3 rooms but only 2 have a bed in them as I use the other one as a library/office/junkroom so by my reckoning I have 2 bedrooms.
0 -
I think that a bedroom is a room with a bed in it. We have 3 rooms but only 2 have a bed in them as I use the other one as a library/office/junkroom so by my reckoning I have 2 bedrooms.
- if you are in council or housing association rented accommodation and in receipt of Housing Benefit
- and a child uses the second bedroom with a bed in it
- that will be a reduction of 14% from your housing benefit for the third spare bedroom
- if you are a couple with no children that will be 25% or more for the two extra spare bedrooms
- calculatorDisclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
My LA go with whats on the tenancy agreement describes the property as and/or whatever council tax hold it as, as it would/should have been inspected for council tax banding at some point since it was built.
Alternativley just go over old plans for the property and see what that states when planning was sought if still held.0 -
Hmmm. I know some larger families who've been offered houses with not quite enough bedrooms and told they can use the lounge as a bedroom. I have a feeling the tenancy agreement describes them as 'parlour bedrooms' or some such term.
So, when the children grow up and leave home, is that still a bedroom?Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
HiYa Savvy_Sue,
Regardless of what is or was, the GOV are redefining for tax purposes what is a 'spare' bedroom netting him them a 500mi££ion reduction in the housing benefit bill. Noticeably none where he lives, most up here in the north 110,000 in the North-West, 80,000 in Yorkshire and 50,000 in my area the North-East. In reality of course it will hit pensioners and the aged the most. In the particular the straddlers, the mixed-age pensioner couples are going to be completely hammered because one qualifies for pension or pension credit and the other does not. If this sneaky cut succeeds I wonder if its a 'practice run' for it to be applied to all pensioner couples not just the 'straddlers'.
Then there's the expectancy that the LA / HB landlord can facilitate a move to a smaller dwelling - wrong again - in my case my local social housing [does not apply to those in private properties] landlord has an average of 2 per 1000 available swaps over the last accounting year. It occurred to me that if there is no such classification as 'bedroom' then unless it has a bed in it it simply isn't ...... a bedroom, leading to thousands or millions of appeals, for example I could have a one bedroom house with 6 spare rooms for keeping junk in.
I still don't know what the definition of a bedroom is !Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
http://www.govanlc.com/GAAopinion.pdfRichie-from-the-Boro wrote: »I still don't know what the definition of a bedroom is !
Be enlightened!
An opinion of a QC on the bedroom tax.
Unfortunately, it basically boils down to some rules of thumb, and that it's likely that if a council uses hard and fast rules - they may be challengable at a tribunal.
The term 'bedroom' is not defined in any relevant legislation at all.
So, it's looking like the determinations of what one is will trickle in over the next year or two, as cases on this matter reach the upper tribunal.0 -
rogerblack wrote: »http://www.govanlc.com/GAAopinion.pdf
Be enlightened!
An opinion of a QC on the bedroom tax.
Unfortunately, it basically boils down to some rules of thumb, and that it's likely that if a council uses hard and fast rules - they may be challengable at a tribunal.
The term 'bedroom' is not defined in any relevant legislation at all.
So, it's looking like the determinations of what one is will trickle in over the next year or two, as cases on this matter reach the upper tribunal.
Most 99% of that I already knew, it was as you say the legal definition I was looking for, it does raise more questions than answers on under occupation penalties – or what has become known as the bedroom tax, for tax is what it is .. .. the DWP is expecting that in excess of 80% of affected tenants will not move, bringing that revenue back to the treasury.
- "as to what the word should mean, as distinct from an opinion what it does mean"
- "nor would a lease which asserted that a property had a particular number of rooms free the relevant authority from its statutory duty to make up its own mind
-"if for example it seems convenient for a family with a disabled child to allow him or her to use the living room as a bedroom, this may result in the property being determined to have one more bedroom than before; just as if it seems convenient to turn a bedroom into a therapy or care room, or a study or playroom, this may result in a reduction in the number of bedrooms determined"
NOTE01 : My use of italic.
NOTE02 : Guidance from LA's and HA's would I thought already have been published and challenged, but not so.Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
I have a question. If I lived in a bungalow with 3 bedrooms and 2 reception rooms could the LA turn around and say I had a fourth bedroom and 1 reception room? x0
-
They could in principle say you've got 5 bedrooms.neferetiabet wrote: »I have a question. If I lived in a bungalow with 3 bedrooms and 2 reception rooms could the LA turn around and say I had a fourth bedroom and 1 reception room? x
Are these reception rooms normally used for other things?0 -
neferetiabet wrote: »I have a question. If I lived in a bungalow with 3 bedrooms and 2 reception rooms could the LA turn around and say I had a fourth bedroom and 1 reception room? x
It Depends, if the 2nd reception is used as a dining room and the kitchen is too small to eat in then probably not.
Remember this is not a tax, it is a reduction in housing benefit for those living in social housing (council house).
If you rent privately it has alreay been applied as LHA.
If you are an owner occupier you will not be affected as you wont be paying rent or claiming housing benefit to pay the rent.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards