Cancellation fee question?
camsoft
Posts: 37 Forumite
Hello, hope someone can help me understand my rights regarding the following matter.
We joined a local baby swimming group and paid for a season up-front by debit card. My wife's card number recently changed due to getting a new card issued. The swimming group contacted us recently as they we're unable to charge our card, my wife questioned why they would be attempting to charge our card again and was told it's in their T&Cs that in the middle of the current season they auto-renewal for the next season in their words "to give existing members a priority". Apparently we have to inform them by some arbitrary deadline (in middle of current season) if we don't want to continue.
We told them that we don't want to continue and they re saying that we'll need to pay a £50 administration fee as per their T&Cs.
From my point of view a £50 fee is completely unacceptable as we've not actually paid them for another season, no money has been taken for the reasons mentioned above.
Having now checked the T&Cs it does waffle on quite a lot about auto-renewing and deadline to cancel auto-renewal and refund and cancellation policies.
None of this was made clear to us when we joined, though we did get an email before the cancellation deadline but was unfortunately miss placed by my wife.
It's seems odd that paying up-front by card, would allow them to keep our card details on file just to bill us again when they would like.
Clearly according to their terms we're are in the wrong, but I feel their terms weren't made clear to as when we booked, I also don't feel their £50 is a fair amount.
I question if I have to pay it at all, as I've not paid them for another year as they are unable to charge the card. So am I still in a legally binding contract, we paid for a season, we've not paid for another even though they want us to.
Where do I stand on this?
We joined a local baby swimming group and paid for a season up-front by debit card. My wife's card number recently changed due to getting a new card issued. The swimming group contacted us recently as they we're unable to charge our card, my wife questioned why they would be attempting to charge our card again and was told it's in their T&Cs that in the middle of the current season they auto-renewal for the next season in their words "to give existing members a priority". Apparently we have to inform them by some arbitrary deadline (in middle of current season) if we don't want to continue.
We told them that we don't want to continue and they re saying that we'll need to pay a £50 administration fee as per their T&Cs.
From my point of view a £50 fee is completely unacceptable as we've not actually paid them for another season, no money has been taken for the reasons mentioned above.
Having now checked the T&Cs it does waffle on quite a lot about auto-renewing and deadline to cancel auto-renewal and refund and cancellation policies.
None of this was made clear to us when we joined, though we did get an email before the cancellation deadline but was unfortunately miss placed by my wife.
It's seems odd that paying up-front by card, would allow them to keep our card details on file just to bill us again when they would like.
Clearly according to their terms we're are in the wrong, but I feel their terms weren't made clear to as when we booked, I also don't feel their £50 is a fair amount.
I question if I have to pay it at all, as I've not paid them for another year as they are unable to charge the card. So am I still in a legally binding contract, we paid for a season, we've not paid for another even though they want us to.
Where do I stand on this?
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Comments
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When did you enter the contract, how (face to face? online?), did they provide you with a copy of the T&C's and if they did, when and in what format (email, paper etc)?
ETA: Also, what does the cancellation clause state with regards to cancelling and how/when to cancel? You say it would require you to cancel in the middle of the season...can you give an example of exact time frames? For example season starts March, ends September, required to cancel by July for a season not beginning until October.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
unholyangel wrote: »When did you enter the contract, how (face to face? online?), did they provide you with a copy of the T&C's and if they did, when and in what format (email, paper etc)?
ETA: Also, what does the cancellation clause state with regards to cancelling and how/when to cancel? You say it would require you to cancel in the middle of the season...can you give an example of exact time frames? For example season starts March, ends September, required to cancel by July for a season not beginning until October.
Sounds like Water Babies. Terms are August-October, November-January, February -April and May-July and, yes, enrolment for the next session was done half way through the current one with email reminders (which the OP received). I was given a big started pack complete with T&Cs when I joined and I do recall there being an admin fee if you didn't cancel in the given timeframe as they would then have difficulty in rejigging the classes which are already quite small. I believe they are run as franchises. Best £2k+ we spent, though it took us 140 lessons and over 4 years for our daughter to "get it". Swims like a fish now and will spend all day in water if we let her!0 -
Sounds like Water Babies. Terms are August-October, November-January, February -April and May-July and, yes, enrolment for the next session was done half way through the current one with email reminders (which the OP received). I was given a big started pack complete with T&Cs when I joined and I do recall there being an admin fee if you didn't cancel in the given timeframe as they would then have difficulty in rejigging the classes which are already quite small. I believe they are run as franchises. Best £2k+ we spent, though it took us 140 lessons and over 4 years for our daughter to "get it". Swims like a fish now and will spend all day in water if we let her!
Yep I don't have an issue with the lessons they are very good if a little pricey. But I do object to a cancellation fee of £50 when no money has changed hands.
My question was more around if I've not paid them for another season regardless of their T&Cs am I legally bound to pay them a cancellation fee?
How have I entered into another contract if I've not actually paid them for another season.0 -
Yep I don't have an issue with the lessons they are very good if a little pricey. But I do object to a cancellation fee of £50 when no money has changed hands.
My question was more around if I've not paid them for another season regardless of their T&Cs am I legally bound to pay them a cancellation fee?
How have I entered into another contract if I've not actually paid them for another season.
You have entered a renewal of an existing contract rather than an entirely new contract. If their T&Cs are watertight then yes you owe them the money and you are lucky that they allow cancellations at all, they could (if they can't fill your space) seek payment for the entire amount, the fact they only choose to charge an admin fee and allow you to get out of your legally binding contract early is a good thing and £50 is a bargain price for that. You don't have to pay but be prepared for them to pass it on to debt collectors or to take the claim to court where they would win as they have proof you owe the money by way of a signed contract, you have no defence to that. This route could also rack up additional charges.
The easiest route is to pay the £50 and in future actually read what you are signing up for.0 -
You have entered a renewal of an existing contract rather than an entirely new contract. If their T&Cs are watertight then yes you owe them the money and you are lucky that they allow cancellations at all, they could (if they can't fill your space) seek payment for the entire amount, the fact they only choose to charge an admin fee and allow you to get out of your legally binding contract early is a good thing and £50 is a bargain price for that. You don't have to pay but be prepared for them to pass it on to debt collectors or to take the claim to court where they would win as they have proof you owe the money by way of a signed contract, you have no defence to that. This route could also rack up additional charges.
The easiest route is to pay the £50 and in future actually read what you are signing up for.
I wasn't looking for the patronisation I was looking for advice regarding their demand for a arbitrary "administration" fee. Legal contracts are only as legal a framework of law they are based in. I know from the history of bank charges that the banks T&Cs were not particularly water tight regarding what constitutes a reasonable fee?
£50 fee and the stealth tactics to get us to renewal to me seem a little off. It wasn't clear when we booked otherwise we would not be having this conversation.
At the same time who reads T&Cs, this element of their conditions should have been clearer and more explicit.0 -
So after speaking to my wife she booked over the phone and is adamant that they did not mention anything about auto-renwal, they just told her to expect a pack in the post.0
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So when did you enter the contract, when did the lessons start and when did you receive the pack? What did the pack contain? Did they inform you of all this information in accordance with this section of the CCRs (and did they do it before you were bound by the contract)?You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0
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I wasn't looking for the patronisation I was looking for advice regarding their demand for a arbitrary "administration" fee. Legal contracts are only as legal a framework of law they are based in. I know from the history of bank charges that the banks T&Cs were not particularly water tight regarding what constitutes a reasonable fee?
£50 fee and the stealth tactics to get us to renewal to me seem a little off. It wasn't clear when we booked otherwise we would not be having this conversation.
At the same time who reads T&Cs, this element of their conditions should have been clearer and more explicit.
People who don't want to fall foul of cancellation charges read them.
Did your wife receive the pack in the post? It's a big, glossy folder with the terms, information about the underwater photography, brochure for the happy nappies and swim aids etc.0 -
People who don't want to fall foul of cancellation charges read them.
Did your wife receive the pack in the post? It's a big, glossy folder with the terms, information about the underwater photography, brochure for the happy nappies and swim aids etc.
Yes she did receive the pack but didn't read the terms and conditions. Who does? Do you read every T&C for everything you've entered into a contract for. They had taken the money before telling us of the terms of the contract.0 -
Yes she did receive the pack but didn't read the terms and conditions. Who does? Do you read every T&C for everything you've entered into a contract for. They had taken the money before telling us of the terms of the contract.
Well I clearly did read them as I managed to cease our classes without incurring a charge. I've looked at my old emails and the reminder email I received for rebooking clearly restated the cancellation procedure, prompted you to call them if your card details had changed, gave the dates by which action had to be taken, the admin fee payable if you didn't cancel by that date and the date on which the renewal payment would be taken.0
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